Originally Posted by Sini
To demonstrate that good-faith argument on both sides are possible, and that shaming and emotional circle-jerk is optional, I am offering to Derid to assume 'pro removal' side of argument.

The statues should come down because the symbolism presented in public places, by and on behalf of the government, ought be representative of the entire constituency served by that government. Although the historical significance is noted, it is also apparent that the statues represent a mentality and history that is diametrically opposed to the best interests of a good portion of our citizenry. Where those statues of Confederate leaders in particular reside on public grounds, particularly courthouses and other government buildings, it is understandable where a good portion of the citizenry receives a message, intended or not, that the proceedings in said buildings reflect the will of a culture that is unfavorable to them and thereby lose trust in said institutions. As trust that our institutions reflect justice served in the interest of the whole society overrides other considerations, the statues ought be removed to send a signal that the mindset of the Confederacy is in the forgotten past.


At first I read that as "I am offering Derid to assume" and missed the preceding "to" but meh its w/e.

I could also offer an argument that remembering the past is important because it serves as both a benchmark for the progress we've gained, and a reminder that no matter the situation today, recidivism is always possible if not actively strived against. Also, the respect for the dead and of history itself. Conversely in such an argument I would suggest adding more statues to reflect the current social paradigm and values, and show the march of history as it has happened. Even if the Robert E Lee statue stands, there is no reason not to erect a MLK statue across the courtyard. Then in another 60 years, hopefully add another. That way in 1000 years when the ruins of our cities are unearthed from the ashes of global war, or discovered on the bottom of an ocean that rose 50 feet, or our robot overlords are finally defeated by the returning colonists we put into space, future historians will have even better context to work with as far as reconstructing our social trajectory - even if nuclear EMPs, solar flares, and time have damaged or eliminated most of the digital records of the era.

Criticizing the SJW/antifa left was in fact my impetus for typing on the issue, I'm pretty agnostic as far as the actual statues go. As most people who know me should understand, I don't tend to believe that ends justify means - and the means adopted by certain segments of our society are rather unpleasant. I also find them hypocritical for injecting themselves into a relatively minor local issue to oppose the tacit support of statues by Trump, while ignoring major national issues with actual, hard, racial implications that are being actively pushed into policy by the Trump administration. To me this makes zero logical sense, unless the actual goal is simply to feel good about yourself for "denouncing racism". Of course pointing this out makes you a sympathizer for white supremacists in their eyes.

What a world we live in.

For who could be free when every other man's humour might domineer over him? - John Locke (2nd Treatise, sect 57)