Originally Posted By: Kaotic


Originally Posted By: sinij
So if I manage to fertilize my finger would you consider it a human being? Would it also stop being my body part at that point?

if your fertilized finger turns into a human then yes, I would.


No, it would be just a fertilized finger, you see with it being a finger, outside of uterus and not the right type of tissue, it would be impossible for it to go through a process of turning into a person.

You are making very logical conclusion here - fertilization process alone does not turn a bunch of tissue into a person.

Yet for some reason when I asked you about fertilized egg outside of human body, that has about the same chance of developing into human being as my fertilized finger, you replied that it is a person. You need to reconcile this logical inconsistency.


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You see the difference is that over and over and over again we've observed that a fertilized human egg becomes a human.


We also over and over and over again observed fertilized human egg not becoming a person, even with natural process is not in any way disturbed. For example implantation rate is somewhere around 50%, so almost half of all fertilized eggs _naturally_ fail to develop into a fetus.

Physiology of Implantation

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Implantation is arguably the most critical stage in the establishment of pregnancy. In humans, it has been estimated that between 30% and 70% of conceptuses are lost before or at the time of implantation, without women being aware that they were pregnant.



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Therefore, based on scientific observation we can safely assume that a fertilized egg will become a human.


This is not correct. See link above. Plus read about miscarriage , Stillbirth .


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If you manage to create a human from the tip of your finger, we'll all gladly affirm that it is human once you've proven it works a few times.


Would you also attempt to deny me control over tip of my fingers just because I demonstrated that it could produce a human being?


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Originally Posted By: sinij
So you have -1 second to fertilization "part of a human", and then suddenly 1 second later you have a whole human. What changed?
No, you have LIFE that will become a human. Since neither you, me or anyone else on this planet can safely say beyond a shadow of a doubt when sentience begins.


I can be very confident in saying that freshly fertilized egg does not have a capacity nor immediate ability to exhibit sentience. Just as we accept that gut bacteria does not posses sentience, nor would a fertilized egg. It is just a bunch of tissue that has a _potential_ and _chance_ to develop into something else that does have a capacity of sentience.


Originally Posted By: sinij
Since you've brought up the "women's rights" issue, where do you stand on the father's rights?


My stance on men's rights is that while women are entitled to full control over their body they should be allowed abortion all the way to viability. Men on other hand, should be entitled to absolve all financial ties (ability to declare intention to not support) up to the same point - viability. After that point it is shared custody with equal rights.

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