The KGB Oracle Forums General Public Discussion (SPECIAL ACCESS) KGB Political Debate Central This is the country I want

I did not suggest you couldnt make a comparison of consumption per person, just that it is not relevant to many of your arguments. First of all, dollars consumed does not necessarily correlate to value consumed. Secondly, you are completely ignoring the context regarding the social, political and economic structures those people live in. Because the thing we are trying to quantify here in these discussion, is the *applicability of process management principles as they could be applied in the USA*. Since Sweden for example, is economically several orders of magnitude smaller than the USA and its place and function within the larger scope of global economic processes is drastically different - you cannot logically say that having the USA apply the same process management principles dealing with health care would have the same effects in our environment as they do in their environment. What you are saying is the equivalent of saying that a manufacturing or financials management process that works in a mom&pop shop with 2 employees will produce the same relative results if implemented in a multi national Fortune 100 company with sixty thousand employees.

This is how you are misusing normalization - you are trying to argue that since a few specific metrics look better for the Swedes (or others) than the US after normalization, that therefore implementing the way they do things would provide an improvement to our system. Which is a fallacy.

Like I said, these systems are to complex to be evaluated in such a simplistic manner.



Again, as with our other discussions... I understand the concepts perfectly well - better than you, because I understand them well enough to inform you on how you are misapplying them.

As I said previously - I am not rejecting normalization, I am letting you know that you are misusing it. The only thing normalization can show us here is that other countries are paying less - it tells us nothing about why. That "why" is the part you get wrong. That "why" , and regarding the future of USA health care planning - the "how" - are the topics of discussion.

You are tying to build a house, but only understand how to use a hand saw. When to build a decent house, you also need hammers, and nails, an understanding of the materials properties regarding weight and stresses, etc.



Yes yes, comparing populations. What we are striving for however, is the determination of a superior system. The population comparison of dollars per capita is just one metric for comparing results. To analyze the reasons, and formulate workable solutions you have to look far beyond economy 101 - if you stay stuck on that level you will never learn how to properly apply analytical techniques or concepts to achieve the desired result.



This exemplifies where you go wrong. If you cannot model a system, you obviously are not understanding all the factors at play with that system. Its pretty fundamental, that to improve a process you have to have an understanding of the process you are trying to improve.

Trying to say that "A" is better than "B" when both exist in completely different environments on a completely different scale is sillyness. To even begin to make a valid apples to apples comparison, you have to compare the EU to the US as a whole. Even without getting into the weeds, the scale alone between the US and your poster countries is analogous to a toy model skyscraper to full size 100 story skyscraper.

Again, you can say we spend to much and get too little - and even be correct on that point, it just does not validate your assertions that your way would be an improvement. If you cannot model the system, you also have no means to begin to predict or attenuate unintended consequences either.

I am well aware that taxpayers foot the bill for much emergency room use by the uninsured. I have said as much in the past, so this attempted insult falls flat as well. The question is how we deal with it, which is where your proposals fall short.