Originally Posted By: sinij
[quote=Derid]
Cherry picked, and already debunked. I explained it to you already.

Next.


Shameful how quickly you capitulated. I was actually curious what new take you going to try, apparently just a new doze of denial with a side order of selective amnesia. What makes you think that this time around your exactly same flawed argument would work?


Quote:




#1 is irrelevant, absolute numbers, %GDP and spending per capita allow you to compare countries with different population. Otherwise, nothing would ever be comparable to say, China or Luxemburg. This is 'magic' process called normalization.

#2 is benefit of the system, its like saying trains don't derail because they run on tracks. Well, duh.

#3 is unsupported assertion/speculation on your part. It ignores all medical R&D done elsewhere in the world. I would not be surprised if US is #1 spender in absolute number in this area, proportional to GDP, but again magic of normalization can help us here. Even if I were to agree with your premise, wouldn't it actually reduce medical spending by generating export revenues?

#4 What does defense spending has to do with healthcare? Or are you just going down the "generic conservative FUD list" and hope I would be too disgusted to touch this point with a 10 feet pole?

#5 Dealing with smoking, obese, sedimentary people is a universal First World Problem. While I know we have our fair share, I don't think US has a monopoly on fat ignorant fucks. Plus in other countries fighting obesity, smoking and unhealthy lifestyle is part of medical spending.

#6 Whatever US system is, with Jesus on a toast added to it, it is a) really expensive b) does not generate nearly as good results as in countries with socialized medicine. US healthcare generates THE BEST results for top 1% of population that can afford "all you can eat", rest of the country - it miserably fails and POPULATION-BASED statistics show that.


/facepalm

Do you really think if you re-attempt this line or argument, it would go any better for you this time?

so lets translate sinjispeak into reality here

1) Doesnt make a difference? Your misusing the concept of normalization here. Societies and organizations of such differing scale and scope have a much different structural dynamic - you are tying to compare them as apples to apples , and thats just wrong.

2) The benefit is not "the system" , the benefit is being a micro entity functioning within a much larger economic context. The countries that do relatively well with their socialized medicine are able to support the systemic inefficiencies for the time being because of myriad other factors. Most socialized countries do not do very well with it - just the ones that either have a lot of interchange with the USA, or super small states that can , in a macro sense, purchase what amounts to bulk health care as a large corp would.

3) Its not unsupported at all, as the largest consumer, originator, developer of health care in the world - in absolute terms - the USA not only incentivises the bulk of health care advancement it develops the bulk, and consumes a great amount. If you seriously think normalization applies here... there probably is not any hope for you. The world isnt so simple as to be understandable by such simplistic methods, especially when misapplied.

4) Its one example of how their overall economy is crutched by outside influence. Another example is their export economies and sounder position within the EU itself. Wealth and talent from poor EU countries flows into these countries which affects everything from price stability to relative valuation/inflation and more... while not having to maintain a large military per capita frees up societal and economic resources that can then be squandered inefficiently in other sectors.

5) I previously posted up the relative numbers. Smoking differential alone explained the life expectancy gap.. sure there are Euro smokers, but the ratio of smokers in the US was much higher. That is without even getting into dietary or other differences. If you want to be taken seriously, at least cognitively process information that comes your way and don't ignore it.

6) Top 1% eh? Thats not even worth addressing, you cant even believe that. Most countries with socialized medicine are abysmal failures, as I have also previously pointed out. Countries that are less abysmal have certain specific circumstances that help them be less abysmal, relatively speaking. But you only seem to be able to process 1:1 correlating relationships, anything more complex goes right over your head.

Plus your selective memory gets old.

For who could be free when every other man's humour might domineer over him? - John Locke (2nd Treatise, sect 57)