""

I am saying that if we eliminate all social programs the mob of starving people are going to go looting. "" (dropped oracle quotes due to having to many quotes )

Well, even if we allow that presumption to stand for now - that has never been the crux of this discussion. I simply do not recall ever calling for the immediate and unconditional removal of all safety nets or social programs. In fact just the opposite, I made a case that the Clinton era system worked well enough for our purposes and that properly allowed to otherwise flourish, our economy could probably sustain such a level of social spending for a long period of time, perhaps even indefinitely.

The topic at hand was what has come after, and what is coming in the future.

Also, I have some issue with you classifying lack of violence with positive contribution to society. Or perhaps we simply need to clarify the difference between positive and negative contributions.

For who could be free when every other man's humour might domineer over him? - John Locke (2nd Treatise, sect 57)