Yes the State-level argument is something of a dodge. But it is at least a philosophically consistent dodge. I highly respect it, because the purpose is to focus on the important issues without getting mired in the wedge issues.

The thing is, none of the leading libertarian leaners like Rand Paul are intent on dismantling social nets. Hayekian-sphere full blown libertarians like myself dont even believe in such a thing. There are plenty of fringe elements of most political groupings. But among the politically "serious" libertarian leaners, most of the emphasis is on ending corporate welfare, not dismantling safety nets for individuals.

I have seen a lot more left leaning bloggers and pundits talk about the dangers of ring wingers - which to them includes libertarians - dismantling social safety nets than I have seen influential libertarian minded pols arguing or pushing for the elimination of social safety nets.

What bothers me is when it gets extreme, like that guy who was arguing for liberals to not join with libertarians to protest the NSA. Fearing, that if the coalition was successful.. somehow that would translate into the most fringe extremest Rothbardian libertarians gaining such popularity that they could and would actually dismantle said safety nets. Which is absolutely ludicrous from pretty much any angle. If anything, the longer the current string of abuses and scandals continue to grow.. I would think that would present a much greater threat of an explosion of extreme libertarianism, where more and more people come to see govt as nothing but an enemy. Reigning in govt abuses and corruption with any coalition should seem like a good idea to the serious liberal, because people who trust govt are far more likely to entrust it with more of their money.

Even among those who philosophically reject the concept of activist govt, most are willing to accept a reasonable level of govt provided it operates in an open, accountable and even-handed manner.

Last edited by Derid; 10/31/13 06:50 PM.
For who could be free when every other man's humour might domineer over him? - John Locke (2nd Treatise, sect 57)