Originally Posted By: Vuldan
He was not saying you were Mithus, he was trying to tell you that like so many others who were duped by the liberal media into believing that NO weapons of mass destruction existed were fooled by a dishonest media. There were obviously weapons of mass destruction, since we know he used them on his own people before all of US involvement.


This is exactly right.

I wasn't making a comment on the validity of our invasion of Iraq. I was merely pointing out that rebutting the WMD claim is silly. Make the case against the invasion. I'll likely back you, but just don't pull out the "no WMDs" line because its wrong.

Originally Posted By: Derid

Saddam didnt have WMD to hand, and even if he did so what? There was also no reason to believe he would use them against the USA. He was more worried about Iran.

So, 100k+ dead Iraqi civilians, trillions of dollars and thousands of US servicemen lives lost later... we have effectively handed control of Iraq to Iran.

I can even be found on record here on the Oracle before the war even started saying what a retarded idea it was, that there were likely no or few WMDs, that tens of thousands would die ( more died than even I thought) and that Iran would be the beneficiary when we left. I also predicted that we would not be hailed as great liberators, and that Iraq would be a shit hole for the foreseeable future.

A great genius is not and was not required to reach those conclusions, they were all patently obvious when the drums of war started to be beaten. Then and now.

Now the war drums are starting to beat regarding Iran... and it makes me very worried.


Sans the first sentence, this too is exactly right. It is not hard at all to make the case that our opportunist government saw an opening, while we were in Afghanistan, to go into Iraq to try to make the region where much of our fuel comes from more secure. Bad move. The problem with trying to "free a people" is the same problem with government hand outs. If a person doesn't have to work for something, typically they don't appreciate it nearly as much as the guy who did work for it. The folks in Iraq do not appreciate the "gift" they've been given because, by in large, they were/are not ready for it. A people has to be completely oppressed and willing to sacrifice their own lives to rise up and do something about it before any sort of beneficial reform can happen i.e. our founding fathers. The simple truth is most of the populace in Iraq wasn't ready for that, and since Iran has had their sights set on certain parts of Iraq for the better part of a century, they will take the opportunity (just like we did) to take it as soon as its politically/militarily convenient. They are obviously planning something fairly soon or they wouldn't be sending warships to hang out around Cuba...

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