+1 to what Kaotic said about misusing quotes being the fault/issue of the quoter, not the quotee.

Sinij, its true you do seem to come across as arrogant. It doesnt bother me, even though I will needle you a bit over it from time to time simply because its fun. Its all part of the game. I am probably at *least* as arrogant, though I usually try not to show it so much. So I really dont have room to throw stones in that regard.

As far as saying that "you cant escape your *side* " - that point you like to bring up. What we have here is I think a fundamental difference in the way people think. Lots of us genuinely do not see ourselves as part of that, or even any "group". You can say we are , or argue we arent - that aspect is moot in this case. The point is that is not how we *think*. We are individuals first and foremost,at least in our own minds, and judging us by the lowest common denominator of people who in some cases share similar views on certain things does not sit well with us, as a matter of basic psychology. Just like we dont like being treated that way by govt.

It is quite possibly something that not everyone can truly internalize, if they arent wired that way.

Interestingly enough, I had a political science prof who actually identified and wrote published material examining this phenominae. His angle, was focused mostly on white men, particularly suburban and semi-rural white Anglo men who were the one of if not the only groups... that did not think of themselves as a group. Latinos, Blacks, immigrants, etc.. all identify with a greater group that they are part of. Not so with white Anglo men.

A whole group of people, that were identified as a group by the fact that they - as a group - did not self identify with a group.

Of course as a very liberal political science prof... his tendency was to view this as a broken mechanism where the "majority" was self deceptive, and other aspects where he considered it a flawed viewpoint.

I still remember the look on his face though, when I pointed out that this particular trait has been most prominent in the very group that has literally gained and wielded the vast majority of wealth and power in the world. So I obviously question the validity of considering it a flawed trait. In fact I consider collective group consciousness a serious weakness, societies that as a whole fit or fall into that pattern ossify and lose their social, and by extension, economic adaptability.

Groups that do not identify with a group simply via fait accompli , but rather make conscious choices to identify with a group when the need presents itself to do so (such as join military in time of war) seem to be much more effective - at least in terms of structuring the social order.

But thats a tangent for another thread.

I do think judging via groups is mental lazyness. Sometimes when running a macro analysis, you have no choice of course- but on a personal level I have always considered it bad mojo. Not because I am doing a disservice to the other person, but rather because I am obviously going to be prejudicing my own perceptions and dealing in false reality.



For who could be free when every other man's humour might domineer over him? - John Locke (2nd Treatise, sect 57)