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Oh I get what you are saying, you are just incorrect - and parroting poor sources. You are also unable to distinguish *the practices of the meat industry* from *meat, as a discrete source of food*. Your compatriots are trying to take the poor practices of a mass-market industry, and assume that the meat they produce represents all meat in all places at all times. It doesnt. If you were arguing for agri-business and food industry reform then I would actually be *with* you on that.

I do not know where you get your sources; My sources are the most respected doctors and nutritionists in America and they are not trying to sell a product like many advocating meat are, doctors like Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn's and his book: Heart Disease Prevention & Reversal Diet, and Dean Ornish MD, the doctors whose diet former President Bill Clinton has used to successfully return to his high school weight -- and to reverse his serious heart disease. They all advocate a vegetarian Diet as the most healthy possible.

see this transciption belowm just show the tip of the iceberg:
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American Journal of Clinical Nutrition
March 2001 (Volume 73)

Back A High Ratio of Dietary Animal to Vegetable Protein Increases the Rate of Bone Loss and the Risk of Fracture in Postmenopausal Women
Sellmeyer DE, Stone KL, Sebastian A, et al.
Am J Clin Nutr. 2001;73:118-122

The hypothesis that a high dietary ratio of animal protein to vegetable protein increases bone loss and risk of fracture was studied in a prospective cohort of 1035 women who participated in the Study of Osteoporotic Fractures (SOF). White community-dwelling women were recruited for the study and were aged > 65 years.


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As far as your comments regarding will of the "majority" , I honestly hope you pause for a second... reflect... and realise how insane what you just said is. Might does not make right, whether the might derives from popularity or not. Popularity does not equate to righteousness. Millions of people can in fact be wrong. Also, whether it is "popular" or not - if the end result of not following that "will of the popular crowd" results in armed men coming and throwing you in a cage - guess what? That is forced coercion.

You are absolutely right, millions of people right now are not exactly “right”, they are uninformed about because the meat and dairy industries invest millions of dollars each year to secure their status quo, but that will come end, as the same as tobacco industry was forced to view their pratices, so USA and world economy will not end, they will thrive, as Philip Wollen said, the only thing that will change will be the “production line” to a better and health production line. So right now as you said popularity does not equate to righteousness, because popularity now is meat, meat meat..

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So does this mean that you have renegged on your previous statements regarding you not wanting to force other people to your view? Because if you support armed men coming and throwing meat eaters in a cage, provided your view becomes sufficiently popular - then you have in fact renegged on your previous statements.

I do know where your argument comes from, because we are now under the democracy, and under the law, everything has to be made under domain of the law, under the regulations. Like you said terrorist acts don't mean anything to a industry that have billions to their side. Evertyhing as be made under the law and it will be, we want the change pratices and regulations, the people will ask for it when they are fair well informed by the two sides, and they will make choices.

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Also the people I know who lived to 90 and 100 also lived with quality.
In addition - making a point regarding the Atkins deit.. actually reinforces MY point, not yours. First - its another example of you trying to take an extreme case, and somehow assert its applicability to your point. All meat is just as extreme as no meat... I do not see how you would think you are making a valid argument there. Second - I have always said that people are eating too much in general, it does not matter if it is meat or not. Eating too much is eating too much. If you eat too much and do not move your body enough, you get sick. Your point again?

I'm sure that you know, exercise and lifestyle has a impact on your health, even with you poisoning your body with meat, if you eat enough vegetables, fruits you can alkalize the acid from meat, our blood has almost a neutral PH, when you eat meat and other acid foods the blood becomes more acidic and that is detrimental to proper function of our body, so to that our blood becomes almost neutral again our body uses the calcium from the bones to neutralize the acid, and that is why we have such high rates of osteoporosis and bone fractions on all those countries that have a higher consumption of meat. So I'm sure that people that are health on 90 and 100 eats a also veggies and fruits to counter the detrimental effect. The question is, if there is no real reason to consume meat and it's detrimental effect on health, the environment, and of course the ethics of human using an animals to their gain, and the truth is everybody is losing, except for the elite of meat and dairy industry that is a powerhouse on USA.

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Are you saying that China is and has always been mostly Vegan? If not, I would drop that line of argument because it plays into my hands not yours (again, never said that many westerners do not eat MORE meat than is healthy, or that modern agribusiness is good) - if you are saying they are mostly Vegan, then make it clear so I can quickly debunk it and we can move on.

Do not put the word vegan, because it's not the case. The diet of Chinese people varies from county to county, some eat more meat, as some have a more plant based diet. The most important thing is how much % of their diet is from animal protein and how much is from plants and starch(rice and grains). They are not even close to consumption of meat as USA, so they are.
The question is educate people and tell the truth about animal protein, but what is happening is meat consumption is not declining, it's raising, with the passage of time they will be so healthy as Americans.. what a joke. And again there is no way you can feed Americans and Chinese people with grazed cattle and poultry. If we do not shout out loud, those vile factory farms will never be regulated or ended, as it was the fight to regulate tobacco that was made in the sixties and seventies.
The first step must be made, and things will walk in the next few decades for a plant diet base for the world. Nobody with any real sense think this is a all or nothing matter, so people will continue to eat meat, but again will be a matter of time that meat is detrimental in several aspects.. and just one day in the future people will accept that as self-evident, eh.

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And finally... is your argument about human welfare, or animal welfare? The whole " knives and forks are weapons of mass destruction" and such videos seem to paint a picture of an argument that is certainly not pro-human in nature. But rather an argument that we should subsume human desire and need to the percieved desires of non-human creatures.
I get what you are saying regarding human welfare - again, you are just wrong and parroting poor sources. Sources that I might add, typically care nothing for humans. You also should look into the ties and overall agenda of some of the global elites that are propagating this type of thought.

When we have the masses eating so wrong and so badly, they are really like weapons of mass destruction, again and again and again.. those poor sources are the best educated doctors and scientists... meat is detrimental to health, is a wasting of water and resources.. You can have all the nutrients that you need to be health with rice, potatoes, beans, legumes, bread, carrots, broccoli, spinach as Bill Clinton now know. Again if you still didn't GET.. to produce 1 kilo of beef, we need almost the equivalent of 10kg of vegetables on factory farms. Thousand of lands that would be producing food, are now being harvested for cattle food, what a waste of resource.. It's too much ineficiency.. I think you got the message because seems that read a lot of financial articles on forbs and etcs...
The masses of people are really susceptible to all that advertise on the midia, those milk mustaches with hollywood stars, all the studies financed by meat and milk industry. “GOT MILK”


Animal Ethics: "I tremble for my species when I reflect that god is just." Thomas Jefferson.
[Linked Image from the-kgb.com]