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The fact that your idols here can be persuasive makes no case in terms of whether they are just and moral people with a just and moral cause. I can think of many leaders in human history who persuaded masses of humans of many things.... like "lets kill millions of jews and invade our neighbors" or " lets kill 11 million people , and all the bourgouise" .... being able to convince the masses of something does not make you right, but it may make you dangerous - as is the case with these animalists. Even if you personally are not looking to make people comply with your views by force - the same CANNOT be said for the vast majority of your compatriots.

This argument is nonsense, now most of the countries are switching to democracy, so now people can choose their leader, and demand changes to the system, I cannot see a choice from the majority as anything bad. Activists are trying to taking off the blind from people, from the industries that expend millions of dollars every year to brainwash people. For now the majority thinks it's moral act to kill other animals as for pleasure, but things are changing, it's not like are you trying to paint, this is not a revolution by arms, and people will decide by themselves. Your are trying to picture some evil comunism or nazism and that will not work with me nor with anyone, but only on your mind.

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Your recent rebuttal is just more cases of you making exceptions where it suits you. Especially in regards to health... and in any case, I consider the health argument completely seperate from the moral argument. Not that the animalists are right regarding the health argument.. they far overreach in their claims in an attempt to slander meat in general.

I mean seriously.. "affluent countries have more cases of diseases of affluency". Ok... and? Yes, people eat too much - we know this. If Veganism is so great, then Vegans will start outliving other people by substantial numbers of years and people will start to pay attention. It hasnt happened yet, despite Veganism being a staple of popular culture for decades... because the claims are false. Everyone I have ever known who has lived past 90 has *thrived* on meat.

Not in this scenario, exceptions are not the rule, as Cornel and Harvard said, Meat is detrimental to health, how do know that are you not getting excess of protein instead. All the current research on need of human protein are made with rats and it has been perpetuating.. rats as another species have a different need for growing.. as protein is currently linked to cell growth and repair. But what we know is what FDA is an organ permed by meat industry and dairy industries.. The current society is eating meat as never before, and the result is all heart and cancer diseases on the americans and other countries, again as you said for excess of meat.

Again you seem to ignore, live to 90 or 100 is one thing, live with quality is another.. Go look for Dr. Atkins that one that died of heart attack with severe artereosclerosis, yes that one that advocate few and moderate lean cute meat as a health diet. Watch what your former president as to say in a two minute interview about diet, maybe you learn something:


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Lots of the spices that people came to love originate in China and India. Trying to turn what I said about evolving love for spices into something racist just means that you are severely uneducated regarding the matter. You are also misguided regarding Chinese diet.

With all respect I think is that you is uneducate about Chinese diet and theirs consequences, recently I have the The China Study book, that is book about diet and that relates the dietary choices of the china population.

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You can believe whatever you want regarding what you think I believe, but my stance against the animalists transcends Descartes view on animals and is not in the least dependent on it. My stance is based on maintaining the primacy and standing of humans in general, for the benefit of humans as a whole. If humans let a false guilt prod us into putting the welfare of non-humans above human welfare while calling it morality, we are doomed as a race.

You are totally wrong, we will trive, and prosper, because the meat production line only benefits a few producers, while a vegetarian diet will benefit the world population as it is growing.. ans I keep repeting but you seem do not get, is about human welfare.

Last edited by Mithus; 07/20/12 08:16 PM.
Animal Ethics: "I tremble for my species when I reflect that god is just." Thomas Jefferson.
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