The KGB Oracle Forums General Public Discussion (SPECIAL ACCESS) KGB Political Debate Central Shutddown

Thats actually pretty funny.

Ofc its backward, Obama the one who wont sign anything that doesn't give him exactly what he demands.. but still funny.

Blaming Obama on the current government shutdown is ... defies logic. Justify your position.

Its self evident.

House GOP passes budget. Dems wont pass/sign budget.

Dems openly say that they will not until and unless they get exactly and everything they want. They will not even negotiate.

Objectively speaking, there is absolutely no question. The whole "GOP TEA PARTY " whatever is just silliness. All Obama has to do is bend some, even delaying

Obama has not a single leg to stand on.

The things you say defies logic.

House is under no obligation to fund anything.

Its not a repeal, its simply not funding.

Your talk about budget vs continuing res is splitting syntactic hairs, and meaningless in this context.

You incorrectly invoked epistemic closure.

Madison himself wrote inn the Federalist Papers that the purse strings were the ultimate recourse for reigning in gov't action.

Your claiming what the Founders wanted.. honestly makes me sick to my stomach.

House is under obligation to keep government working, it their main function. Your view is anarchism.

If all they are supposed to do is rubber stamp government spending, why do we even need them?

This whole "situation" can be over simply by Obama giving in on a one year mandate delay for Obamacare.

GOP want something. What do they have to offer in exchange? Minority doesn't get to dictate, win both houses and presidency and then you get to tell how things going to be.

Hey Derid, lets negotiate. You give me 100$. What, no? Why not, why won't you negotiate with me? Fine, I will take 80$. See, I am willing to compromise.

After Obama won reelection and the Democrats picked up 11 seats in the House last November, Boehner appeared ready to accept political reality. He observed,

"It's pretty clear that the president was re-elected. Obamacare is the law of the land. If we were to put Obamacare into the CR [the bill funding the government, known as a continuing resolution] and send it over to the Senate, we were risking shutting down the government. That is not our goal."


In January, Rep. Paul Ryan (R-Wis.), the GOP's top budget guy, also took a moderate stance:

"We have to deal with the fact that President Obama has a second term…A second term will present new challenges to our side—and new opportunities. To take advantage of them, we will need something we occasionally overlook. We will need prudence… We have to make decisions anchored in reality—and take responsibility for the consequences. The prudent man is like a captain at sea. He doesn't curse the wind. He uses it—to reach his destination."

Please, after you continuously pushing argument that GOP that controls ONE out of TWO legislative chambers and not even by popular vote and has a democratic president is perfectly fine to DICTATE LEGISLATURE by threatening function of the government AND credit and faith of US... you are not the one to talk about "how a Republic is suppose to work".

In your tra-la-la land anything is possible. Meanwhile in US GOP is grossly abusing the process and attempting to expand power of congress by declaration. Remember all these rants you wrote about Obama expanding power of The Oval Office? Well, now you exposed yourself for a hypocritical partisan hack by unquestionably supporting these shenanigans.

Please, after you continuously pushing argument that GOP that controls ONE out of TWO legislative chambers and not even by popular vote and has a democratic president is perfectly fine to DICTATE LEGISLATURE by threatening function of the government AND credit and faith of US... you are not the one to talk about "how a Republic is suppose to work".

In your tra-la-la land anything is possible. Meanwhile in US GOP is grossly abusing the process and attempting to expand power of congress by declaration. Remember all these rants you wrote about Obama expanding power of The Oval Office? Well, now you exposed yourself for a hypocritical partisan hack by unquestionably supporting these shenanigans.

Huh? Too many great leaps there. Does not follow at all.

Congress is supposed to set spending. Its not an expanded power, its what they are supposed to do.

So Obama beat a guy who made some unrelated unpopular comments who wanted to quadruple military spending and maintain the police state. So what? You keep going on about Obama being re-elected. As if thats some kind of mandate.

Saying that a President should get whatever he wants because he was elected...

Obama may want to be a strongman, and I am constantly flabbergasted by your support of such.

The reason the House initiates spending was quite intentional, and meant as a check on govt.

The House being closest to the people holding the purse strings was quite deliberate.

Hemorrhoids
The DMV
Hipsters
Jury Duty
Zombies
Wall Street
Toenail Fungus

As I noted before, when you try to make Constitutional or structural govt arguments against someone who went off the deep end after inhaling too many toxic fumes at the right wing fever swamp and lost all pretense to objectivity and tenuous grasp on reality you just end up talking to a wall.

Heres another news flash... Obamacare isnt popular. Its deeply unpopular.

CNN, CNBC in separate polling show 59 — the same number in both polls — 59 percent of the American people support Obamacare, and even a larger number of people think the government shutdown is the worst idea that ever came along

Please, you are still fighting yesteryear battles. Your side lost ACA fight years ago, quit crying over spilled milk already.

but he likely saved US from default. Until January.

Boehner had to ask Nancy for help.

Please, you are still fighting yesteryear battles. Your side lost ACA fight years ago, quit crying over spilled milk already.

No it isn't left-right, it is US vs. biblethumpers and anarchist that want to tear fabric of society.

No it isn't left-right, it is US vs. biblethumpers and anarchist that want to tear fabric of society.

The United States of American is constitutionally bound to pay its debts.

Other things may not get paid for...

Special thanks to Orange John, and Ted for furthering my political agenda farther that anything I could have ever imagined!

You assume that there is ability to prioritize payments. That is big MAYBE.

Special thanks to Orange John, and Ted for furthering my political agenda farther that anything I could have ever imagined!

http://www.gallup.com/poll/165317/republican-party-favorability-sinks-record-low.aspx

I love you guys, and thanks!!

But with the current administration's track record of ignoring and/or rewriting laws

I assume your agenda is to bankrupt the country???????

Really? You blaming "current administration" for bringing us to the brink of default?

fucking yes this administration is responsible for the mess we are in.

Hows that hope and change workin out for ya?

I wonder where these champions of government shrinkage were during George W. Bush's eight years of federal-government expansion, and why their calls to repeal Medicare Part D and defund the Transportation Security Administration are so much quieter than their calls to repeal and defund the Affordable Care Act.

One reason the country keeps finding itself in this position is that legislators have adopted a style of government by torture. Once again, accepting something previously considered appalling proved preferable to compromise.

""I actually made it through this morning at 8:00 A.M. I have a preexisting condition (Type 1 Diabetes) and my income base was 45K-55K annually I chose tier 2 "Silver Plan" and my monthly premiums came out to $597.00 with $13,988 yearly deductible!!! There is NO POSSIBLE way that I can afford this so I "opt-out" and chose to continue along with no insurance. I received an email tonight at 5:00 P.M. informing me that my fine would be $4,037 and could be attached to my yearly income tax return. Then you make it to the "REPERCUSSIONS PORTION" for "non-payment" of yearly fine. First, your drivers license will be suspended until paid, and if you go 24 consecutive months with "Non-Payment" and you happen to be a home owner, you will have a federal tax lien placed on your home. You can agree to give your bank information so that they can easy "Automatically withdraw" your "penalties" weekly, bi-weekly or monthly! This by no means is "Free" or even "Affordable""

"Today we had all-hands meeting at work and were told by the boss and owner that they no longer can afford keeping us on the insurance plan. All 10 of us were told to go on the exchange. Thanks Obama!

Despite technical glitches I made it through this morning at 8:00 A.M. My wife has a preexisting condition (she is the body snatcher survivor) and our single-earner household income base is 45K-55K annually. I chose tier 2 "Silver Plan" and my monthly premiums came out to $1234.00 with $12,345 yearly deductible!!! There is NO WAY that I can afford this so I "opt-out" and chose to continue along with no insurance.

I received an email tonight at 5:00 P.M. informing me that death panels determined that my wife will lose control of RonPal.com domain and get deported to Somalia unless I pay $5,432 fine that would be attached to my yearly income tax return. This by no means is "Free" or even "Affordable"!!!

Its credibility has taken a huge hit the past 6 months.

Many readers sent us a Facebook post that went viral and has since been circulated by chain-email.

• "There is NO POSSIBLE way that I can afford this so I ‘opt-out’ and chose to continue along with no insurance."

According to a spokesman for the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, the agency that runs the marketplace, this is not how the system works: "There's no way for people to complete the online application and then affirmatively ‘opt out’ at the end. They would simply close the website or not enroll in a plan."

• "I received an email tonight at 5:00 P.M. informing me" about the fines I would face.

This is wrong on several levels. First, the system would not send any user an email if they failed to complete an application. Second, any fines would be calculated as part of the user’s overall income tax form 1040 -- they wouldn’t be sent as a bill. And third, any taxes would be owed by April 15, 2015 -- a year and a half from now. Someone being assessed a tax penalty by the Internal Revenue Service in early October doesn’t even make any sense, since the applicant has many weeks to find another insurance plan and avoid a penalty.

• "My fine would be $4,037."

This number is way out of line. Under the law, the penalty fee in 2014 is 1 percent of your yearly income or $95 per person for the year, whichever is higher. The fee increases every year. In 2016 it is 2.5 percent of income or $695 per person, whichever is higher.

If we are to take this Facebook user’s claims at face value -- that his "income base was 45K-55K annually"-- and if he has no dependents, he would not have to pay any more than $550, by 2015. To pay a penalty of $4,037 in 2014, you would need to be making making more than $403,700 a year.

• "Your drivers license will be suspended until paid."

CMS told PolitiFact that nobody’s driver's license will be suspended as a noncompliance penalty under the Affordable Care Act. Nothing in the law mentions that as a penalty, and driver’s licenses are administered by state governments.

• "If you go 24 consecutive months with ‘Non-Payment’ and you happen to be a home owner, you will have a federal tax lien placed on your home."

A Treasury Department spokesperson confirmed that the law specifically bars the IRS from using their normal means of collecting unpaid taxes, including the use of liens and levy.

According to the law, the government "shall not (i) file notice of lien with respect to any property of a taxpayer by reason of any failure to pay the penalty imposed by this section, or (ii) levy on any such property with respect to such failure.’’

Instead, the only thing the IRS can do to collect fines is to subtract it from any tax refund you qualify for. If you aren’t due a refund, all the IRS can do is send you a letter.

Another section of the health care law protects citizens from any other form of punishment. "In the case of any failure by a taxpayer to timely pay any penalty (…) such taxpayer shall not be subject to any criminal prosecution or penalty," it says.

• "You can agree to give your bank information so that they can easy ‘Automatically withdraw’ your ‘penalties’ weekly, bi-weekly or monthly!"

Don’t take online banking advice from a Facebook post. The Treasury Department warns citizens not to hand out bank information online.

You are such a disingenuous ass. You know good and damn well we are no where near "default" but keep playing thst record. It has served you wo well over the pastcouple months. Perhaps the folks who give you this barbage to regurgitate will pat you on the back for your steadfast adherence to their agenda.

*but since your brought it up, fucking yes this administration is responsible for the mess we arein. They promised to change things and yet they are following the same progressive agenda of the Bush admin. Congrats. Hows that hope and change workin out for ya?

The point of the post was that many people are reporting major sticker shock. Whether its all made-up or whether the theme holds true for the general public remains to be seen.

The way politifact danced around this issue and used specious quotes to sell the idea that your privacy is protected is disingenuous at best.

I hope you didnt wake up with a horrible hang over and find out you got gay married in Vegas :-)

You do realize that your furious backpedaling on another issue in the single thread set a new kind of record? You are not winning any prizes in this thread, so I guess it is time for you declare yet another victory over reason and proceed to rest on laurels of your flawless record.

"They are now cherry picking when and where to go into more detail" reads a lot like "I don't like when they disagree with my side".