Quote: "About government regulation tobacco industry, I will not comment or anwer on this matter because would be an topic alone by itself. But I do not agree with you at all about what is government for. "

Mithus, this is not about agree or disagree. This is an absolute.

When you do not follow the govt orders:

1. Armed men come and kill you/throw you in a cage
2. Nothing happens. In which case feel free to regulate against meat all you want, because I will ignore it.

You and I both know that 1. is what happens when you defy govt. You can NOT say that govt is not violence, and expect to be taken seriously. Govt is govt, taxes are called taxes and not donations, regulations are called regulations and not suggestions because the end result of not complying are penalties that are backed by MEN WITH GUNS WHO KILL OR CAGE YOU.

There is no agree/disagree on this.


Quote: "My case is against meat and not about an specific issue caused by meat(health/enviroment/economy/moral), I will use all arguments that are relevant to the case"

And apparently many arguments that are not relevant.

Quote: "Again sir, you are missing the point, I think you think vegan is like some magic potion, and continue parroting as you say about government gun and things like etcs.. People will continue to live at 70/80/80/100 it doesnt matter, but what's matter is the population % that will be free from cancer and heart disease and severe osteoporis, and live the last of years of their lives very well, those ones that Dr. Esstlyn succefull cured more the 80% of his pacient switching to a plant based diet, because what we know NOW is how animal protein can promote cancer, and how limiting animal protein to a maximum 10% of daily calories consunmptiom can stop(turn off) or slow the development of cancer that is already ongoing and it's not in metastasis phase. And this is not a guessing, this is a scientific study done by Cornell Universty"

This is just a question mark to me, you are saying 10% meat is OK? I thought you wanted no meat? I already said that eliminating excess meat from a diet can be helpful in some cases, not sure why you keep bringing it up. I think you are missing some things.

For one thing, you are arguing for no meat whether it is produced by a factory farm or not. Second, you are trying to tell others how to live using violence(govt) to enforce your opinion. I did not miss the point at all, my point is that if your way is better then people will naturally gravitate towards it. If something is truly superior, you do not need govt. That and forcing people to conform to your idea of what is best for *them* is evil. Worry about yourself, live your own life - its not your place to use violence (govt) to force other people to do things "for their own good".

Quote: "You are wrong, there are global problems, we live on the same atsmophere, so what we are putting out to the atmosphere, will impact on global economy, I think you are theat ones that believe that there is no greenhouse gas emission problems, and all invented by the actvists."

I will say that the whole global warming charade has made me much more skeptical of activist scientists, and cautious about accepting data from studies without reading the raws myself and putting it into context. When I was younger it was "global cooling" and the "coming ice age".

Our climate is whats known as an "emergent system" and not subject to simple one-liner explanations of its behaviour. Its far too complex, I suspect in about 30 years we will have a better idea of how the climate really works and what causes it to warm or cool. All of our science cannot yet even tell us with great accuracy if it will rain tomorrow, there is no working climate model. Anyone who says they know how it works, is just blowing smoke.

Quote: "I agree in the years the will come, if there are any funding to further get more clear of the detrimental rule of animal protein in the diet things will clear out even more, but in the meanwhile the best thing that can happen is the goverment regulate all the critical issues that I already spoke before.. And unlike you, other people like to educated about the possiblity of meat causing cancer, unlike you they are concerned about the health of their country. "

I am quite educated about the "possibility" of meat being detrimental in some cases, and at some doses. Also, it seems patently obvious to me that contaminents have something to do with detrimental effects. But the absolutely worst thing to happen, is to get the govt involved in enforcing your idea of a healthy lifestyle on people. Humans have the natural right to live as they see fit as long as they do not harm other people. Also, science changes its mind so incredibly often about these types of things as new data comes in... the case is farrr from closed on the effects of meat, especially when you take a more granular look and factor in things like types of meat, type of meat preperation, how the meat was raised and fed, what is eaten with the meat, other environmental factors and etc. There is soo much more at play than just "meat or no meat".


Quote: "Even the most leancuts of meat are enough to clog up the artheries after decades of consumption.."

My grandpappy lived to 100, and was in near perfect health until 98... and ate pork every day of his life. Just one example close to me personally. Good for Bill Clinton if his current regime helps... but different people are different.

Quote: "So in sum in cannot me link any real link."

Seriously? Seriously serious? I have to spell everything out for you?

Ok some quick true/false

1. Plenty of data has shown and there is ample examples of different people and population groups that metabolize foods differently. ( hint google Darwinian medicine if you really want to read links, I shouldnt be having to link everything for you - according to you , you have already read all the pertinent literature on the subject )

2. There is however, no body of data that identifies metabolization and synthesis efficienty regarding different amino acids correlating to different genetic markers. ( if you find one let me know )

(hint: the answer to both of these is true)

Ergo, you making a claim that it is proven that all people can live equally well without animal protein is you talking out of your bunghole.

If you can explain why some people do not do well under a Vegan diet ( including myself ) I am all ears.

For who could be free when every other man's humour might domineer over him? - John Locke (2nd Treatise, sect 57)