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Re: FAQ Discussion thread. Bardaji #36566 01/22/09 05:47 PM
Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 4,653 Likes: 6 Derid OP Chief Justice KGB Supreme Court
OP Derid Chief Justice KGB Supreme Court Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 4,653 Likes: 6	I will elaborate on this issue shortly, I see what you are saying Demoyn - but while trying to keep this post small, the perception of KGB is not the "anti" perception amongst many in the gaming community. We have been playing SB for many years, then AoC, and in both have been more of an "Honor PvP guild" than an oldskool anti guild. Helemoto has so far put it best I think. KGB may do mild loreplay, to give our actions context but KGB is making no pretences of being the ultimate force of "good" from a humans peerspective in the game. (unless well, we play human maybe hehe) There are racial subfactions as well, even the alfar have several different factions within the lore who have differing ideas on things - and DFO is designed as such to have the players take the basic lore and run with it. That being said, I am spending an awfully good amount of typing on the subject of lore when we are not, and not trying to be a "rp guild". But anyhow, as soon as I get a chance, I will expound my thoughts on the matter of public positioning and loreplay, and purpose and all that.

Re: FAQ Discussion thread. Bardaji #36567 01/22/09 07:02 PM
Joined: Sep 2008 Posts: 112 Demoyn Former KGB Member
Demoyn Former KGB Member Joined: Sep 2008 Posts: 112	Quote: SO I guess what I'm asking is what qualities do you espouse that makes you an "honorable" PvPer? What stance would KGB need take in your opinion to lean a "little more towards honor". The first question is kind of hard to answer for me. I simply tried not to be an asshole, and that seems honorable enough. Specific things, though, are harder to come by. I'd gate enemies, wouldn't loot many times if the fight was a good one, and wouldn't attack people without cause. None of those things really makes one "honorable", though. I feel that I've cleared up the second question a bit more, but I wasn't intending to say that any member was dishonorable in the least. I was only meaning that instead of being seen as "protectors of the innocent", we moved to "honorable PvP-on" guild. Again, the actions and attitudes of the members wouldn't need to change, we'd just have to state it better. I've read Derid's stance on approaching PvP (hell, Derid's stances have always mirrored my own, and that's why I was happy to hear he was in charge). I haven't, though read anything about the politics (with good reason, as we don't know enough about the game to commit to anything yet). I was just putting my thoughts out there because I foresaw an issue that I thought would need to be resolved for the well-being of the guild. I came back to this guild for two reasons. The main one is because this guild was once like a family to me, and I loved it. After UO-SP, though, the reputation became that of "scrubs plus Binbs". I resented that reputation and was tired of defending it (especially since I was running out of ammo to defend with towards the end of SP). I want this guild to have the reputation that it deserves, and that's why I'm here to try and help correct it. This, by the way, is why I was ecstatic to learn that Derid was in charge of the operation. That's why I was ecstatic to learn that JetStar is back to playing more than just messageboard warrior. That's why I was ecstatic to bring my friends to this family, and that's why I AM ecstatic to begin a new chapter in this storied guild's history. I just didn't want to enter a setup that may end up tarnishing that possibility over something as simple as a bad lore/race combo, so I felt the need to bring it up. No complaining and no hidden messages. Nothing more and nothing less.

Re: FAQ Discussion thread. Demoyn #36568 01/22/09 07:19 PM
Joined: Apr 2003 Posts: 12,986 Likes: 44 KGB HeadQuarters JetStar (GM10) KGB High King KGB Federal Faction (F5) High Chancellor KGB New World Faction KGB Oracle Administrator Founded KGB in 1997
JetStar (GM10) KGB High King KGB Federal Faction (F5) High Chancellor KGB New World Faction KGB Oracle Administrator Founded KGB in 1997 Joined: Apr 2003 Posts: 12,986 Likes: 44 KGB HeadQuarters	I have to comment here. First of all, I have slowely been re-writing the rules to exclude the "Anti" image. I do encourage us to be "honorable". What is honorable? Being cool instead of a tool. Personally I dont just try and slaughter anyone I see. If you are "Cool" then I am cool. If you treat me with respect, I show it in return. My favorite thing to do is to clown "Tools" and "Fools". People who play dirty, talk shit, act like asses, etc are my favorite enemies. Does that make us "Good"? Well maybe. To me it makes us honorable. There are so many "Tools" and "Fools" out there, we always have plenty of targets. Then there is the territory / spwan / resource questions. I will fight to take and defend these freely, showing honor in PVP and conduct. It is stricty "Business". I will not take these from a declared ally, but anyone else is open game. We might warn them kindly if we have superior numbers / skill, or if not, maybe suprise attack. Remember this is only "Business" To me, running around trying to kill everyone and everything is lame. Pick your battles, and most importantly, if you act honorably, you attract people that act the same way. Thats how I see it. Star Citizen Hanger: RSI Javelin Destroyer, Hull E, RSI Constellation Pheonix, Aegis Dynamics Retaliator, Banu Merchantman F7A Military Hornet Upgrade, F7C-S Hornet Ghost, F7C-R Hornet Tracker, Origin 325a Fighter

Re: FAQ Discussion thread. Demoyn #36569 01/22/09 07:49 PM
Joined: May 2008 Posts: 583 Saudi Aurora, CO. Bardaji Band 5
Bardaji Band 5 Joined: May 2008 Posts: 583 Saudi Aurora, CO.	Like I said, I wasn't trying to criticize and didn't think you were referencing anyone or anything currently. I just thought the honor you were seeking matched up to the play style I've witnessed from most KGB since I started playing and I think it does now that you elaborated. I can see where it might cause us to work a little harder to demonstrate our guild ethics if we go with an "evil" race but ultimately imo it'll come down to what we do rather than what race we are that will determine most interactions. Quote: Quote: SO I guess what I'm asking is what qualities do you espouse that makes you an "honorable" PvPer? What stance would KGB need take in your opinion to lean a "little more towards honor". The first question is kind of hard to answer for me. I simply tried not to be an asshole, and that seems honorable enough. Specific things, though, are harder to come by. I'd gate enemies, wouldn't loot many times if the fight was a good one, and wouldn't attack people without cause. None of those things really makes one "honorable", though. I feel that I've cleared up the second question a bit more, but I wasn't intending to say that any member was dishonorable in the least. I was only meaning that instead of being seen as "protectors of the innocent", we moved to "honorable PvP-on" guild. Again, the actions and attitudes of the members wouldn't need to change, we'd just have to state it better. I've read Derid's stance on approaching PvP (hell, Derid's stances have always mirrored my own, and that's why I was happy to hear he was in charge). I haven't, though read anything about the politics (with good reason, as we don't know enough about the game to commit to anything yet). I was just putting my thoughts out there because I foresaw an issue that I thought would need to be resolved for the well-being of the guild. I came back to this guild for two reasons. The main one is because this guild was once like a family to me, and I loved it. After UO-SP, though, the reputation became that of "scrubs plus Binbs". I resented that reputation and was tired of defending it (especially since I was running out of ammo to defend with towards the end of SP). I want this guild to have the reputation that it deserves, and that's why I'm here to try and help correct it. This, by the way, is why I was ecstatic to learn that Derid was in charge of the operation. That's why I was ecstatic to learn that JetStar is back to playing more than just messageboard warrior. That's why I was ecstatic to bring my friends to this family, and that's why I AM ecstatic to begin a new chapter in this storied guild's history. I just didn't want to enter a setup that may end up tarnishing that possibility over something as simple as a bad lore/race combo, so I felt the need to bring it up. No complaining and no hidden messages. Nothing more and nothing less.

Re: FAQ Discussion thread. Bardaji #36570 01/22/09 09:01 PM
Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 1,526 Likes: 1 Nebraska,Omaha Helemoto KGB Supreme Knight
Helemoto KGB Supreme Knight Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 1,526 Likes: 1 Nebraska,Omaha	What is this "Lore" that you speak of. Is this a new flavor of potato chip.

Re: FAQ Discussion thread. Helemoto #36571 01/22/09 09:51 PM
Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 4,653 Likes: 6 Derid OP Chief Justice KGB Supreme Court
OP Derid Chief Justice KGB Supreme Court Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 4,653 Likes: 6	"What is this "Lore" that you speak of. Is this a new flavor of potato chip. " No, its the pretty pic on the bag.

Re: FAQ Discussion thread. Derid #36572 01/22/09 10:07 PM
Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 875 Bay Area, California Syloc Band 6
Syloc Band 6 Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 875 Bay Area, California	There's nothing wrong with being honorable, but, especially with a Hardcore PvP game, you have to distinguish between "buisness" and acting "honorable". You can still play "Conquest" style while keeping an "honorable" stance toward other people. Besides, War is War, and others won't have the compunction to start stuff up. In a game like Darkfall, like it was in SB, honorable always meant not whimping out when you face a challenge (aka a uber-skilled guild), getting back up when you lose your city, and not running your mouth constantly like a 11 year old wow player. As much as I want to embrace the old days, especially in UO when RP wasn't as a stigma as it is today, we can't go back. In Darkfall, make no mistake, there's A LOT of guilds that hate us from Shadowbane, and an equal amount that like us. When we start to own it up on the battlefield, we'll make enemies faster than you can say, "Aqua Teen Hunger Force," and they'll start flaming more than you can't believe. That's the price of sucess in an Open PvP game. It's really unavoidable, the best we can do is act honorably among the standards we set for ourselves, and not kill ourselves to be the "nice guy" in every situation. Former KGB Member

Re: FAQ Discussion thread. Syloc #36573 01/24/09 12:20 AM
Joined: Jun 2008 Posts: 239 T Tuskil Band 4
Tuskil Band 4 T Joined: Jun 2008 Posts: 239	I'm sure everyone knows the difference between honorable and dastardly. We all know "good" is a perspective. There is no axiom to which "good" is measured in an MMO. Unless by good you mean great, which is meaning you have the skills to make the kills. With that said.. I'd like to make a statement about guild alliances. It's something we encountered in AOC--if an ally is monopolizing the resources, such as nearby spawns, thereby causing us harm, and they refuse to allow our members access to the action by allowing us in their groups. I'm not sure that is a healthy alliance. I am of course referring to UDA in AOC when they had control of basically every spawn in our stronghold zone and for the most part, would not add our guys. In this situation, the honorable part would not be whether or not to attack them, but whether or not we give them an opportunity to get on board with the alliance and share in everyone's best interest before we decide to attack. That is honor, not playing doormat for the sake of an alliance that ultimately chokes us out. That sort of alliance is a one sided alliance where the other guild benefits from our manpower. These games are combat oriented, therefore, this sort of militial stance must be taken. PK and Anti is a child's concept, far too simplistic for today's games. I like the way Jetstar is moving things.

Re: FAQ Discussion thread. Tuskil #36574 01/24/09 08:44 AM
Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 2,929 Donk's gf's house Crimthan KGB Supreme Knight
Crimthan KGB Supreme Knight Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 2,929 Donk's gf's house	Quote: PK and Anti is a child's concept, far too simplistic for today's games. That's what I've been saying for the past 4 years or so. Black and White, Blue and Red...there really is no true duality in kingdom warfare - Just who's on your side, who's neutral, who's against you, and who may or may not be doing the "dirty" work. Most sides refer to themselves as "the good guys" but what makes them virtuous or honorable? Heroism means taking great risks for the welfare of your people and those who believe in aiding others. Your actions indicate your level of "honor". However, where is the line drawn? We all know that some asshats in UO had blue names above their heads... There are three types of Cowboys - You've got the outright Criminal, then you have John Wayne, and then....then you've got Clint Eastwood. The first isn't really an option, but think of the possibilities if KGB shifts from the mentality of John Wayne to Clint Eastwood...

Re: FAQ Discussion thread. Crimthan #36575 01/24/09 08:52 AM
Joined: Apr 2003 Posts: 12,986 Likes: 44 KGB HeadQuarters JetStar (GM10) KGB High King KGB Federal Faction (F5) High Chancellor KGB New World Faction KGB Oracle Administrator Founded KGB in 1997
JetStar (GM10) KGB High King KGB Federal Faction (F5) High Chancellor KGB New World Faction KGB Oracle Administrator Founded KGB in 1997 Joined: Apr 2003 Posts: 12,986 Likes: 44 KGB HeadQuarters	We are going to have to trust our membership and leadership to make the tough calls in the field. Star Citizen Hanger: RSI Javelin Destroyer, Hull E, RSI Constellation Pheonix, Aegis Dynamics Retaliator, Banu Merchantman F7A Military Hornet Upgrade, F7C-S Hornet Ghost, F7C-R Hornet Tracker, Origin 325a Fighter

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