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JetStar Offline OP
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March 15th, 2022 - Year 24

[Linked Image from oracle.the-kgb.com]

THE KGB KING'S HIGH COUNCIL REPLACES THE KGB SENATE

KGB is about community, friends, and, most importantly, gaming. We have recently lost our way in the KGB government despite things going well in our factions and with the games themselves. Our sense of community, friendship, and gaming together took a back seat to politics and rivalries. The KGB Senate started to look more and more like a real-life job than the advisory body it was designed to be. As you all know, I made the difficult decision to start over.
The Senate will cease to exist going forward and return to its roots. I formed the KGB High Council over 20 years ago, and it eventually evolved into the KGB Senate. I have just authorized the creation of the new King's High Council with advice and consent from KGB King Romeo and KGB Supreme Court Chief Justice Derid. Article III "The King's High Council / Advisory Branch" of the KGB Constitution now reflects this change. Clear language assigns an advisory role instead of a legislative as initially designed and then mislabeled. All of the duties, responsibilities, and capabilities remain. Processes have been simplified and the role is not as demanding as it was becoming.
All Senators will automatically become members of the King's High Council. Former members of the Senate will be invited to return.

The King's High Council will begin operations on March 16th

You can read about the changes in the KGB Constitution Article III here: https://www.the-kgb.com/the-kgb-constitution/
The following will be posted in the King's High Council Chamber forum as the code of conduct that further defined Article III.

Originally Posted by KHC CONDUCT CODE
King’s High Council
Purpose:
The KGB King’s High Council serves as an advisory body to the (GM5) King/Queen and (GM10) High King/Queen. It will be made up of KGB Veterans that have shown interest in the health of the organization and/or have participated in leadership or other aspects of the KGB Government. Members will be selected by the King/Queen and High King/Queen. The King/Queen and High King/Queen will leverage this body to gauge support and approval for changes to the organization, awards, and general advice. King’s High Council members may also suggest changes, awards, etc via the proposal process defined below. Proposals that pass the KHC via the voting process would need King/Queen and (GM10) High King/Queen approval to be implemented or become law.

Conduct:
Thou shalt treat all persons with respect in all forms of communication at all times. King's High Council Members will strive to present themselves as honorable, respectable, and chivalrous at all times. Problems will occur and tempers will flare. Help solve the problems with calm discussion and be respectful. Take the time to review your posts and statements. Don’t post angry!
-King’s High Council will be held to a higher standard.
-This code will be strictly enforced.
-Violations will result in removal from the council and extreme violations of the conduct code or KGB general orders will be prosecuted.

Roles:
KGB King’s High Council Member
Participate in discussions and provide advice and consent for guild-related decisions made by KGB executives. This means proposing, refining, reviewing, and voting on proposals initiated by the King/Queen and High King/Queen and the King’s High Council Membership.
-KHC members are appointed by the King/Queen and High King/High King for a term of life or as long as they retain their KGB citizenship. A KHC member can be any KGB members regardless of position or responsibility
-KHC members have the option to create and post proposals using the proposal template pinned to this forum.
-KHC members are expected to check the forums and participate as much as possible. There are no participation requirements to hold this position. This allows for members to come and go to deal with RL and personal matters.
-The KHC is not a job, but a privilege. KHC members will play an important role in steering the organization and helping to change and modernize it as time passes.

KGB Prime Ministers and KGB Chiefs of Staff
Federal Faction leadership will manage King’s High Council processes. They would be responsible to:
-Participate in KHC as a full member
-Manage proposals, promotion requests, award requests, etc through the KHC process, including managing debates & discussions, helping to refine proposals, and bringing proposals forward for voting.
-Make sure KHC rules are being followed.
-Refer any violations of conduct code to the King/Queen and High King/High King and Supreme Court via Supreme Court Conduct Report if necessary.

King/Queen and High King/Queen
-Appoint and manage KHC membership
-The King/Queen and High King/Queen may participate and vote on proposals
-Accept or veto proposals passed by the KHC.

Last edited by JetStar; 03/15/22 03:29 PM.

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Hmm, WTC I honestly do not see the reason for this. If the duties do not change and the responsibilities remain the same, how is simply changing the name supposed to make things better? The Senate was always confrontational, and that was always part of the responsibilities and the importance of the job, a heavy full time weight sure but worthy of ones time and energy if taken seriously as the honor it was. What's to stop infighting in this new iteration? There will always be differing opnions, I think the real crux of the problem was that some had thin skin and others just liked confrontation too much yet lacked valid arguments to support their opinions. As a former senator I can honestly say that while a lot of my policy went unsupported and completely disregarded, what policy did go forward I was damned proud of, the fight it took always worthy, and ultimately worth the effort when it finally did. That sense of satisfation can't be described. I will always love KGB and what it stands for, and I will (and did) respect everyone I interacted with both as a Knight and as a Senator. Did I have some epic arguments on the Senate floor? Yes but I never hated my fellow Senators. This new development seems to simply change the name and try and dumb down the process of the Senate doing little to change the processes or responsibilities, unless I am simply not seeing the logic and/or the new changes. However after reading this twice now I really don't know what's changed except the name and apparently the importance or priorities of this once august branch of government. Did the senate suggest this change, sign off on it, or was it mandated by the crown authority? Did Owain support this? Especially after his most recent appointment? Talk about getting the shaft. Here I'm going to take your crown awarded posting and dump it in the flaming dumpster and give you a safe space instead, therapy pet optional. Please explain as I have a small toaster for a brain. You can kick violators of the principles of this High Council but you could do that when the Senate was active too, and quite honestly if you go around kicking people for causing a disagreement everytime someone simply farts in someone elses general direction you'll find yourself with not much of a counsil. having little more then two loose marbles rolling around in the chamber hardly able to do you any real good, simply being yes men trying to help you keep the machine rolling irregardless of the good for KGB.

As always, In service to KGB

Oh and BTW it's my 50th brithday today....God help me.

PS as a side note I'd like to contribute again while I wait to join KGB in a game, it would certainly keep me more sober, that of course means I would completely understand if I was denied.

Last edited by Drakiis; 03/15/22 07:10 PM.

I am Wrath, I am Steel, I am the Mercy of Angels.
mors est merces mea – death is my reward
morte in vitam non habet tenaci - Death has no grip on Life.
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JetStar Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Drakiis
Hmm, WTC I honestly do not see the reason for this. If the duties do not change and the responsibilities remain the same, how is simply changing the name supposed to make things better? The Senate was always confrontational, and that was always part of the responsibilities and the importance of the job, a heavy full time weight sure but worthy of ones time and energy if taken seriously as the honor it was. What's to stop infighting in this new iteration? There will always be differing opnions, I think the real crux of the problem was that some had thin skin and others just liked confrontation too much yet lacked valid arguments to support their opinions. As a former senator I can honestly say that while a lot of my policy went unsupported and completely disregarded, what policy did go forward I was damned proud of, the fight it took always worthy, and ultimately worth the effort when it finally did. That sense of satisfation can't be described. I will always love KGB and what it stands for, and I will (and did) respect everyone I interacted with both as a Knight and as a Senator. Did I have some epic arguments on the Senate floor? Yes but I never hated my fellow Senators. This new development seems to simply change the name and try and dumb down the process of the Senate doing little to change the processes or responsibilities, unless I am simply not seeing the logic and/or the new changes. However after reading this twice now I really don't know what's changed except the name and apparently the importance or priorities of this once august branch of government. Did the senate suggest this change, sign off on it, or was it mandated by the crown authority? Did Owain support this? Especially after his most recent appointment? Talk about getting the shaft. Here I'm going to take your crown awarded posting and dump it in the flaming dumpster and give you a safe space instead, therapy pet optional. Please explain as I have a small toaster for a brain. You can kick violators of the principles of this High Council but you could do that when the Senate was active too, and quite honestly if you go around kicking people for causing a disagreement everytime someone simply farts in someone elses general direction you'll find yourself with not much of a counsil. having little more then two loose marbles rolling around in the chamber hardly able to do you any real good.

Oh and BTW it's my 50th brithday today....God help me.

I misjudged how it would go to make the Senate autonomous. I removed myself from oversight thinking that the heated debates of the past would be just that. The situation devolved because of a lack of clarity on all the roles, responsibilities, conduct code, etc. I blame myself for not be absolutely clear before we started this autonomous endeavor. I attempted to correct it, but by then it was too late. In the end, the only way I could think to resolve the issues was to push the reset button. Start fresh with very clear rules and conduct code and act immediately if it goes off track.

Quote
Thou shalt treat all persons with respect in all forms of communication at all times. King's High Council Members will strive to present themselves as honorable, respectable, and chivalrous at all times. Problems will occur and tempers will flare. Help solve the problems with calm discussion and be respectful. Take the time to review your posts and statements. Don’t post angry!
-King’s High Council will be held to a higher standard.
-This code will be strictly enforced.
-Violations will result in removal from the council and extreme violations of the conduct code or KGB general orders will be prosecuted.


1. The rules were there but have not historically been enforced, and it was not fair to start enforcing when others had a free pass. The reset was necessary for a fresh start.

2. The Senate was working to create role call and participation requirements. This alienates members that had real-life issues or limited time. As you know, folks come and go, and can take part when they are here and don't lose their position when they are not. I had promised to remove myself and my only option was to veto these proposals as they came through. Several folks put a lot of time into this and I felt it was just not fair to them. I should have never removed myself so I would be able to notify folks if they were working on something that I would never be able to approve.

3. Owain was given an impossible task. He was to run the Senate without clearly defined rules, code, processes, and procedures. It was left to the Senate to create theses when they were actually needed to create them. It was a no-win scenario and an impossible task. Without an enforced conduct code, divisions deepened and the environment became toxic. I have apologized to him personally for carelessly signing him up for this impossible task.

4. The "Senate" name implies an equal branch of government like the US constitution. In the constitutional monarchy we currently have, it is an advisory body and not an independent legislative body. Continuing to use the name "Senate" would never be able to shed that implication. A new name was necessary.

All in all, the new organization will be under federal oversight as it was before the recent hasty changes. Rules will be taken seriously and enforced fairly. The KHC will have the same ability the Senate did to change KGB, but with a clearly defined code, process, and procedure.

I hope this brings clarity to what I did and why I did it. I did not do this in a vacuum. I worked with Romeo, Derid, and other long time members that were online at the time.


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Thank you for your timely response Jet, I do want to point out something though. Was it really so bad that even Owain of all Knights couldn't control it? When Slinger was in the Senate this never happened imho. Slinger and I even disagreed many times but I never disrespected him. The picture you paint is a senate out of control is that what was happening? Seriously? Vuldan was always my biggest detractor yet I still respected his right to his opinion. Why, How? I...I really have trouble seeing a Senate in flames, especially under Owain of all people.

Well In the past we did not conduct Senate business in a vacume, we would enforce policy change with those able and present not waiting for full consensus. I know that with your vote of confidence that would often times push through the policy in question. however you would think it would have been easier to do this without High/king intervention. Perhaps this was simply untrue. Either way I would say (and this is NOT a insult to Owain) strong leadership is very hard to achieve and required in the Senate, perhaps I stepped down as a mistake lol, either way KGB will prosper and I have faith Owain and others will make it so.


I am Wrath, I am Steel, I am the Mercy of Angels.
mors est merces mea – death is my reward
morte in vitam non habet tenaci - Death has no grip on Life.
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JetStar Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Drakiis
Thank you for your timely response Jet, I do want to point out something though. Was it really so bad that even Owain of all Knights couldn't control it? When Slinger was in the Senate this never happened imho. Slinger and I even disagreed many times but I never disrespected him. The picture you paint is a senate out of control is that what was happening? Seriously? Vuldan was always my biggest detractor yet I still respected his right to his opinion. Why, How? I...I really have trouble seeing a Senate in flames, especially under Owain of all people.

Well In the past we did not conduct Senate business in a vacume, we would enforce policy change with those able and present not waiting for full consensus. I know that with your vote of confidence that would often times push through the policy in question. however you would think it would have been easier to do this without High/king intervention. Perhaps this was simply untrue. Either way I would say (and this is NOT a insult to Owain) strong leadership is very hard to achieve and required in the Senate, perhaps I stepped down as a mistake lol, either way KGB will prosper and I have faith Owain and others will make it so.

1. Owain was not given the tools to deal with it.
2. I removed federal oversight. It ended up being the wild west
3. I should have thought it through before I did what I did.


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Since I was one of the folks who proposed the change, and support it I'll speak up here a bit with at least my own rationale as I presented it to Jet.

First, is pointing out the actual purpose as well as limitations and bringing them to the front. That is, the High King always holds the final say. The Senate was never a truly independant or coequal branch, but treating it such I think gave the wrong impression and set wrong expectations. For right or wrong, the High King has the final say and personally I am fine with that. Some people may think the Senate or other body should have a larger official power, other may not. Either way, it is best in my view to be plain and clear. That being said, if much of the guild is in favor or against something, it is pretty rare where Jet doesn't listen, especially for the types of things a Senate or KHC would address. In practice, vast powers have also been delegated over the years to the HC and officials of a given faction, to operate very freely. Changes to Federal operations and possible projects requiring implementation were always things the High King was going to keep a say in.

Calling something and treating it for what it is, can only be sensible in my view. It sets the proper expectations, all to the better. Recognition of this goes back at least to Confucious and Mencius, and the Rectification of names.
"When Confucius was asked what he would do if he was a governor, he said he would "rectify the names" to make words correspond to reality. "

Second, is that the previous Senate iteration had unfortunately not been going well. Part of this was due to not having a structure or procedure in place I think. There were difficulties encountered with getting any operational structure set up. I'm not about to delve into any finger pointing on who, what, why. But it is simply a fact that things were not going as anyone hoped. Having talked with multiple participants, I can say that if nothing else - no one was particularly enjoying the experience, though I certainly cannot speak for all. Nor was it going anywhere productive. From my own personal perspective, poring over the proceedings was not enjoyable though I pretty much stayed out of it. At the very least, there was no consensus-building occurring. Maybe, had it been left to its own devices, this course would have self corrected. Maybe it instead would have gotten worse. We don't know. I can't say whether or not I would have paused proceedings or pulled the plug had I been in Jet and Romeo's shoes, but in any case it was done so the outstanding question was 'well what's next'

My suggestion was to simply remake it, call it for what it was, set the proper expectations and outline the basic procedures while leaving the door open in the future for more delegation should it be warranted. In my view, the KHC has accomplished this.

Is it perfect? Few things are. But hopefully the restart will produce better results. Maybe it wont. It depends on us really.


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Oh a very detailed explaination, Thanks Derid. This is exactly what I am talking about the core of the issue, and I quote "The Senate was never a truly independant or coequal branch, but treating it such I think gave the wrong impression and set wrong expectations. For right or wrong," This explains all. Huburis a downfall of many people. I get it thanks again Derid, I will say this however once control is lost it can never be regained, and while what happened has happened I fear this new iteration could potentially devolve down the same path which will require more govenment oversight thus requiring other branches to pick up the slack As it stands though I guess I can get on board IF oversight can be maintained, and IF counsil can maintain a good working relationship. I realize nothing can be perfect, and that this is all an exsperiment or work in progress. I just dislike wasted effort and if there is indeed a rainbow at the end of it all then I am all for it. My Godkid says that the Sun smiles on me, and if that be true then I see it so for KGB as well if everyones intentions be pure.

Last edited by Drakiis; 03/15/22 08:14 PM.

I am Wrath, I am Steel, I am the Mercy of Angels.
mors est merces mea – death is my reward
morte in vitam non habet tenaci - Death has no grip on Life.
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JetStar Offline OP
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I promise. No exceptions this time on conduct code.


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