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Joined: Nov 2005
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It is hard to achieve the numbers in a game like BDO, however, when you have game mechanisms that serve to work against guild unity.

Competing against other guilds is hard enough without having to be opposed by our own members.


To the everlasting glory of the infantry...

Owain ab Arawn
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Originally Posted By: Owain
It is hard to achieve the numbers in a game like BDO, however, when you have game mechanisms that serve to work against guild unity.

Competing against other guilds is hard enough without having to be opposed by our own members.


I think we should look into closing the faction then. Let's see what the impact would be. Why not discuss it with the BDO active membership and leadership.

Based on the running Senate proposal, I want to make sure we get a solid commitment out of those that are involved.

I am amazed at the resiliency of this faction.


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It has been discussed with the BDO membership and leadership. I will leave it to Taxman to convey the consensus.


To the everlasting glory of the infantry...

Owain ab Arawn
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We are working on an internal marketing campaign. Owain, you assistance is needed. Please contact Tax.


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Taxman and I have already been in consultation, and unless you have suggested something new as of this morning, I am ready to hit the ground running.


To the everlasting glory of the infantry...

Owain ab Arawn
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You've seen the manpower of top-end guilds first hand at this point. If you feel you're even half as pvp-capable as one of those Top10 guilds, you should make a go of it. We held off at launch, because we simply weren't - maybe things have changed?

KGB needs to be capable of satisfying a majority of everyone's needs and not just the needs of the majority - otherwise it will just leave those with the unattended needs frustrated/restless and left to their own devices for finding ways to fix the problem.


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Originally Posted By: Tasho
You've seen the manpower of top-end guilds first hand at this point. If you feel you're even half as pvp-capable as one of those Top10 guilds, you should make a go of it. We held off at launch, because we simply weren't - maybe things have changed?


Well the good news is - guilds can only take 2 nodes, so can't have EVERYTHING - they have to decide which they are going for and be smart about it. That definitely gives us opportunity to take other nodes.

Originally Posted By: Tasho

KGB needs to be capable of satisfying a majority of everyone's needs and not just the needs of the majority - otherwise it will just leave those with the unattended needs frustrated/restless and left to their own devices for finding ways to fix the problem.


Indeed - we don't want to CLOSE the faction until we have the dedicated/active players to do so. Unfortunately, we continue to bleed off the top-end because this is taking "too long". We need to get 15-20 more folks in whom stick with the faction and support the game, and we should be good. We are okay now to try for some of the smaller nodes; we likely won't run into any of the top-tier guilds there anyway. From our past engagements, KGB folks typically can put down 3-5 to 1 odds (unless they are exceptionally geared and organized).


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Hemorrhaging members from the top is a serious problem. Regardless of whether BDO is an Open Faction, it shows bad faith to tag as KGB, take advantage of assistance offered from leveling groups and sharing benefits of scroll drops only to abandon the organization once it no longer is of personal benefit. I don't think that is the intent of Open Faction Games.

If a game is considered Open, then you are not obliged to join KGB forces if you wish to go your own way, or belong to another organization.

HOWEVER, if you elect to wear the KGB tag, take advantage of KGB resources, make use of the time and energy of other members and THEN jump ship once you have milked the organization of benefits, THAT is something that should not be done lightly, and serious consequences should ensue.

I open the floor to suggestions from the BDO membership, which I will then present to the Senate.


To the everlasting glory of the infantry...

Owain ab Arawn
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When you have 20+ people taking a game serious and want to see KGB advance in game and in reputation, having a open faction is very detrimental to getting goals and advancements.

I want a closed faction, not to force people to play with us but to get the people playing a better sense of community. Achieving goals with a team is what we are about.

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Originally Posted By: Owain
Hemorrhaging members from the top is a serious problem. Regardless of whether BDO is an Open Faction, it shows bad faith to tag as KGB, take advantage of assistance offered from leveling groups and sharing benefits of scroll drops only to abandon the organization once it no longer is of personal benefit. I don't think that is the intent of Open Faction Games.

If a game is considered Open, then you are not obliged to join KGB forces if you wish to go your own way, or belong to another organization.

HOWEVER, if you elect to wear the KGB tag, take advantage of KGB resources, make use of the time and energy of other members and THEN jump ship once you have milked the organization of benefits, THAT is something that should not be done lightly, and serious consequences should ensue.

I open the floor to suggestions from the BDO membership, which I will then present to the Senate.



I, personally, believe that this is a bigger problem regarding online-gaming in general. "Guilds", (insert Clans, Organizations, etc.), used to be organizations that you joined, gained friendships, reached for mutual goals, cared about the progress of the organization, and developed with individuals while your gaming interests aligned.

Modern day online-gaming appears to predominately = most Guilds are considered, (by the majority of the MMO populace), to be disposable gatherings of interim interest to meet individual's specific goals. These Guilds are considered to just be stepping stones of opportunity, and the individuals are joining for their personal goals. The average online gamer has no concept of a persistent organization that they care about at all beyond one that will help them achieve personal immediate goal(s). The scary part is that these "disposable guilds" not only don't much care who comes and goes, but also put in all the effort to create/initiate an organization with no aspirations of existing beyond the current game. While the idea of an organization that you join, contribute toward, and stay with is foreign to many of today's players, the concept of disposable organizations is foreign to many of us.

We have to strive to find the individuals who care about joining a persistent community, and ensure that our organization retains those members. The self-promoting "tag-jumpers" will just have to be weeded out as it's discovered that they have no care interest for the organization as a whole. (Hopefully before they've absorbed the organizations resources and time.)

The eternal challenge is retaining the good members, because these are games that people play due to individual appealing factors. If the guild can't meet any of the widely varying factors that appeal to our diverse populace, then the member will either drift away from the guild, or will just stop playing the game. I do not envy our officers with addressing this never-ending challenge, and I applaud their efforts.

I agree with much of what Owain is saying, but unfortunately I do not currently have any new suggestions toward fixing these problems. :(


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