When we first started in BDO we had a lot of guild mates that started with us. Some decided this was not the game they wanted to play so we lost a good portion of our pvp core group. This lead to a downward spiral effect and those that were playing 24/7 got very much ahead of others in the guild. They decided to leave so they could enjoy more of the pvp side of the game. This is understandable but now we had 3 more people leave the guild and its getting ridiculous because if the people that left before them were still with us we would now have a good pvp group. So the way I see things is to be with KGB only until you get super geared then bail to go to another guild. And I believe its because of the open faction that we cannot get our guild built up to the level that it should be. This hurts all of us that are loyal to the KGB tag. I am very proud and honored to be a member of KGB and will remain in the KGB guild no matter what. I wish our other guild members could think this way. We would have been an awesome pvp force by now.

It is an ongoing challenge with BDO game mechanics. There are ongoing discussions about this. I hope it comes together!

Yah, the history there is slightly off Meaculpa...we started with quite a few when Shock was running the show, Zombies caused a bunch of drama and people went to the sides...it's been dicey...then with the game mechanic changes, other issues and concerns and the semi-sorta merge with some other guild, many folks took a breather. Some of us are slowly coming back (I myself was in for three or four days before I had to travel for a week for work) and I know that I plan on picking up more. I won't play under a guild tag as a sub unit though. I can go play with CoTP in that case, and KGB deserves better representation. I haven't been able to to talk to Taxman yet, but will see whats up when I get home Friday night. I have never agreed with the open faction concept. We should be KGB or not represent if we can't put our true face forward in a game.

One day at a time.

Thanks for the post Mea, totally agree with you on this. Vuldan as well - things have DEFINITELY been "dicey".

Indeed, it feels like we are spinning our wheels by leveling folks up and they just leave to play for some other guild because KGB isn't doing PVP in-game currently. Well that will be changing as we will start taking part in Node Wars again; the folks whom left (yesterday) KNEW that - they just decided to leave anyway (apparently NEXT week just wasn't soon enough for them). *shrugs*

I was not really happy about us merging under Lethality myself; but was doing so for the PVP-centered folks that wanted a larger group to play with. Once again - the folks involved bailed, and then Lethality themselves collapsed. So here we are back to KGB in-game; even thought it is with a smaller group. I suppose on the flip side of this, we are talking with the folks that are still left in Lethality and perhaps they will come join KGB now! Evy is working with them, supposed to find out more about that next week. We will NOT be merging with or subbing under any other guild - KGB will stand on its own or will close out of BDO entirely.

Really all that we need right now is to get some more DEDICATED folks in-game and keep our eyes on the prize. Once we do, and have the ability to go CLOSED faction - the folks whom left will either have to come back to fight under the KGB tag; or they will have to resign:



Currently, we do have a pretty solid group - really it will just take a few more. In fact we added a few more Knights over the weekend (Supreme Knight Wildcard, Knight Nemhain), and I have been talking with Supreme Knight Vuldan, Supreme Knight Crimthan, and Knight 5050 as well. All of these folks are long-standing KGB members! If we pick up 5-10 more folks, that is really all we would need to carry forward!

In fact, I plan on getting with JetStar and issuing a "Call To Arms" for KGB as a whole; this may very well be the best time to do it in fact. Because without more dedicated folks to join to push things into a CLOSED faction - we will likely continue to loose our best warriors to other guilds (or games) because that PVP action is what they crave. This is definitely NOT something I want to see continue happening.

This is the very reason why I advocate eliminating open factions entirely. They promote not only divided loyalties, but also active disloyalty.

Good point, I think it should be CLOSED Faction myself

Thank you everyone that posted your comments. I am once again optimistic that we will get this guild to the level of KGB excellence. I know with Taxman as our leader we cannot lose!

Don't trust that Vuldan guy, he is really, really, really, old and his mind is not right. How much good could he be in a fight if he can't even fight his way out of his chair?

Thanks Mea!

Doing the best that I can, it is not an easy thing by any means! It will take everyone's hard work to make it happen - and some more "DEDICATED" folks to join up to help with this. But I do see the light at the end of the tunnel and have hope that our KGB brothers and sisters in-arms will enable it to happen!

I am definitely with you on your concerns!

Open and closed is a simple concept. You have to have the numbers and strength to close. The faction itself decides weather to open or close. Feds need to approve.

I am working on a new proposal on what it takes to create a closed faction. More to come.

It is hard to achieve the numbers in a game like BDO, however, when you have game mechanisms that serve to work against guild unity.

Competing against other guilds is hard enough without having to be opposed by our own members.

I think we should look into closing the faction then. Let's see what the impact would be. Why not discuss it with the BDO active membership and leadership.

Based on the running Senate proposal, I want to make sure we get a solid commitment out of those that are involved.

I am amazed at the resiliency of this faction.

It has been discussed with the BDO membership and leadership. I will leave it to Taxman to convey the consensus.

We are working on an internal marketing campaign. Owain, you assistance is needed. Please contact Tax.

Taxman and I have already been in consultation, and unless you have suggested something new as of this morning, I am ready to hit the ground running.

You've seen the manpower of top-end guilds first hand at this point. If you feel you're even half as pvp-capable as one of those Top10 guilds, you should make a go of it. We held off at launch, because we simply weren't - maybe things have changed?

KGB needs to be capable of satisfying a majority of everyone's needs and not just the needs of the majority - otherwise it will just leave those with the unattended needs frustrated/restless and left to their own devices for finding ways to fix the problem.

Well the good news is - guilds can only take 2 nodes, so can't have EVERYTHING - they have to decide which they are going for and be smart about it. That definitely gives us opportunity to take other nodes.



Indeed - we don't want to CLOSE the faction until we have the dedicated/active players to do so. Unfortunately, we continue to bleed off the top-end because this is taking "too long". We need to get 15-20 more folks in whom stick with the faction and support the game, and we should be good. We are okay now to try for some of the smaller nodes; we likely won't run into any of the top-tier guilds there anyway. From our past engagements, KGB folks typically can put down 3-5 to 1 odds (unless they are exceptionally geared and organized).

Hemorrhaging members from the top is a serious problem. Regardless of whether BDO is an Open Faction, it shows bad faith to tag as KGB, take advantage of assistance offered from leveling groups and sharing benefits of scroll drops only to abandon the organization once it no longer is of personal benefit. I don't think that is the intent of Open Faction Games.

If a game is considered Open, then you are not obliged to join KGB forces if you wish to go your own way, or belong to another organization.

HOWEVER, if you elect to wear the KGB tag, take advantage of KGB resources, make use of the time and energy of other members and THEN jump ship once you have milked the organization of benefits, THAT is something that should not be done lightly, and serious consequences should ensue.

I open the floor to suggestions from the BDO membership, which I will then present to the Senate.

When you have 20+ people taking a game serious and want to see KGB advance in game and in reputation, having a open faction is very detrimental to getting goals and advancements.

I want a closed faction, not to force people to play with us but to get the people playing a better sense of community. Achieving goals with a team is what we are about.

I, personally, believe that this is a bigger problem regarding online-gaming in general. "Guilds", (insert Clans, Organizations, etc.), used to be organizations that you joined, gained friendships, reached for mutual goals, cared about the progress of the organization, and developed with individuals while your gaming interests aligned.

Modern day online-gaming appears to predominately = most Guilds are considered, (by the majority of the MMO populace), to be disposable gatherings of interim interest to meet individual's specific goals. These Guilds are considered to just be stepping stones of opportunity, and the individuals are joining for their personal goals. The average online gamer has no concept of a persistent organization that they care about at all beyond one that will help them achieve personal immediate goal(s). The scary part is that these "disposable guilds" not only don't much care who comes and goes, but also put in all the effort to create/initiate an organization with no aspirations of existing beyond the current game. While the idea of an organization that you join, contribute toward, and stay with is foreign to many of today's players, the concept of disposable organizations is foreign to many of us.

We have to strive to find the individuals who care about joining a persistent community, and ensure that our organization retains those members. The self-promoting "tag-jumpers" will just have to be weeded out as it's discovered that they have no care interest for the organization as a whole. (Hopefully before they've absorbed the organizations resources and time.)

The eternal challenge is retaining the good members, because these are games that people play due to individual appealing factors. If the guild can't meet any of the widely varying factors that appeal to our diverse populace, then the member will either drift away from the guild, or will just stop playing the game. I do not envy our officers with addressing this never-ending challenge, and I applaud their efforts.

I agree with much of what Owain is saying, but unfortunately I do not currently have any new suggestions toward fixing these problems. :(

I have to agree with much of whats being said in this thread. Perhaps some changes need to take place with open/close faction.

Here are some suggestions:
With closed/open faction:

1) Allow closed faction conscript recruiting with a 30 day probation: to give both the KGB community and the conscript time to see if both are satisfied with how well the conscript fits within our KGB community and for the conscript to decide becoming part of the KGB community.

2) New KGB knights should also have a 30 day probation: To prevent taking advantage of the community and the faction they initially joined and then leaving to do their own thing.

3) Should not matter if the faction is open or closed, all KGB community members should work together under the same tag achieving game goals.

4) If a KGB member does not wish to partake of a game under the KGB tag then they should refrain from joining the said guild from the start of their game time and do as they wish or perhaps they may no longer wish to be part of the community it self. Something that may need to be addressed as this is clearly something that's presently happening within BDO.

Personal opinion:
I've always believed that a community is a place where individuals are to work together as a family. This doesn't prevent you from having personal goals, the family/community may not move at the same pace but we are all their supporting each other either way and working to achieve game goals.

I'm not the best typist or do well expressing my thoughts, I do apologies for my lack in typing skills, but hopefully some of the thoughts I've shared can perhaps be taken into consideration.

I am with Evy,

We need more time before weighing in on conscript votes; as well as knights need a "cooling off" period so that there is increased stability in our ranks.

Indeed - we can "kind" of support that now, just by looking conscription date and saying "well this is too-soon to tell" and wait until next round of application to vote. But once a Knight is in, it takes a formal complaint to revoke status. I am not saying that is a BAD thing, it is just "too easy" to become a knight and there isn't much control after that is done. Just as factions need stability in their officers; our community needs additional stability in our membership.

Honestly, I am not sure what is to be gained by having an "open" faction vs. "closed"; maybe there should not even be an option. I thought the whole point was to allow for us to openly recruit and allow non-KGB knights to be in the (open) Faction, and decide on if they wanted to be a Knight instead of becoming a Knight IN ORDER to join the (closed) Faction. If there IS an official Faction and you ARE KGB.. then you should join it - there shouldn't really BE an option to NOT join it. Just my thoughts anyway; hope they are helpful.

Ah, the ever evolving, never changing problem of open versus closed factions. Yes, I am well aware of the conflicting information in the statement.

Once upon a time, there was a good reason, maybe, kinda, with respect to creating open factions in games with limited KGB presence, that allowed members to join forces with allies or other guilds to play games which were not of great import to the majority of KGB. For good, bad or indifference, the program was implemented, and frankly has been nothing but a headache 9 out of 10 times. It is the rare title in which KGB is present, that being open factioned, does not cause problems. I have never been a fan. If there is insufficient membership for a specific game, there should be NO KGB presence. Period. Otherwise, if there are 5 or 6 or 10 or 100, it should be a 100% KGB FACTION, closed under the definition, and no other option. If KGB needs numbers to participate in things, then form alliances. As Tax stated, and others, there never should be another option.

We have become entirely to lenient with respect to this. It causes issues, KGB reputation suffer's and in the end, we lose members who have been solid parts of our family because there are not clear guidelines to follow and a formal KGB faction to belong to. I still hold the guild in SWTOR for christs sake, one lonely Jedi Knight..LOL.

So, what does KGB BDO need. Well, first, close the faction now. Period. Second, it needs a more focused group of KGB with an understanding of the game mechanics. Im talking to anyone who might be interested, currently in KGB and not playing this title. The game is intense and deep, but worth a second look.

We have excellent folks here already who know and are the go to resources, I am not talking about them, I am talking about the rest of the KGB family who is not in BDO, but who might be interested. The faction needs to be closed, immediately, and the current leadership, with a plan, needs to press forth the mission that is most productive to KGB in BDO. I have no idea what this is, I am too recently back. I would suggest a council, much like back in the UO era, not because I am nostalgic for the good ol days, but because it worked. I would resurrect the Ambassador corps, and begin recruiting. There are large numbers of players running around BDO, start bringing them into KGB. You won't keep them unless you have the first part complete, the focus and where we are headed part.

The beauty of BDO is also in the game mechanics. KGB once again has an opportunity for groups of mounted patrols to keep the lowbie innocents safe from the murders and scum which seem to roam. BDO is more UO like that Archeage, which also is a great benefit in terms of game play, and ability to do things without wasting all of your personal time is also great. Harvesting etc, conducted primarily by your hired workers and crafted in your workshops that do not require you to be in them to produce, is a nice touch. But I digress, you all, mostly, know all of this.

So, I will add to this conversation when I get home. I will pull up the Ambassador documents, and purposes, as well as the emblems and ranks for those positions. If there is interest, I will put them to the Senate and Jet and Romeo to push into existence. Form training and combat teams, much like the old squads, and get people focused on the group and not the individual. That is also part of the problem with open faction, its to easy to be a loner, and then bitch cause being alone gets you killed or whatever.

KGB is and was about our values and ideals. And at the end of the day, it still is. The actions of just one of us become the reputation of all of us, we have seen this over and over and over again. So, pull out the old values, implement the rewards, ranks and structure that is vital to the Guild, put in place the focus required of the newer generation of KGB and start recruiting players through the normal system, applications, sponsors and probations in place.

Just my 47000 silver.

while i do love being mentioned , i dont appreciate a 1 sided finger pointing , there were quite a few pplz who caused issues it just happens alot of em (mind u there those who quit BDO all together now) were all friends and pushed there own issues.
While i would love to see KGB grow like it has in most other games, i dont know how we will go forward with that in the current state of KGB , i hope to be at one of the KGB meetings to talk about this ...but there always held on weekends and i never have those off so hard to talk to points imo with its current state.

I agree Vuldan, definitely this is a signature of a much LARGER problem.



After having an Officer meeting last night we let JetStar know that we would like to move the faction to CLOSED; which he agreed and posted. So that being said and done, hopefully we will continue to grow and get more KGB folks online!

(DONE)



Definitely!

We have already seen some vets returning and had some excited NEW players join in the fun. I do hope to see more familiar faces of the past pickup BDO and give it a TRY at least. We have plenty of folks who can toss out 7-day passes to folks whom are willing. Hop into TeamSpeak - or PM me and we can get you a code to try the game out.

Thanks for the kudos about our folks in-game now. I do feel that is what make our BDO Faction so strong, our members working together.

Regarding the past issues of BDO; I would prefer to just leave them there... in the PAST. The folks whom left (some of which are no longer in the KGB) departed for their own reasons. As far as I am concerned we are picking up with what we have and moving forward. Just as Zombiez mentioned, I am not sure how we will given the current state of KGB - but I do have hope that we can affect a change and move towards a better/supportive community TOGETHER.

Who did/said what/when... some time ago? Doesn't REALLY matter - today is today, tomorrow is tomorrow. Let's make it count! Let's work TOGETHER to make it happen!

United we stand - divided we fall!

It is not one sided finger wagging Zombiez, its an accurate statement of fact. I was here. I won't rehash it now, except to state that many members left because of the few who were not listening to the many. It happens often, and in many cases within KGB, has caused the rifts we have seen over the years. That being said, I am more than happy to listen to reason, but I won't back off the truth, but I recognize it is "my" truth. If there are intelligences I am unaware of, feel free to correct me. Beyond that, bygones are bygones and I look forward to working with you to make BDO a great faction.

Thanks Vuldan, I wasn't around when all of this happened - but I did get some pretty disturbing reports (and definitely had to deal with the wreckage left behind). If there is something that needs to be worked out, please let me know (or handle it between you two). Otherwise, I do hope that we can start a NEW page and move forward!

In regards to "the few who were not listening to the many" I have full confidence in our officership; but definitely we are all "peers" in this. We did have a recent member leave because I refused to listen to JUST HIM (no names) and regardless of how bad that person tries to make that seem, I cannot find fault in listening to EVERYONE in our group. He made his choices based on HIS thoughts/opinions - I make mine based on what the group wants/needs as a whole. I may be HC of the BDO Faction, but I always see myself as a Knight and a player - just the same as everyone else, not a Dictator/Czar.

Absolutely. Zombies is a good guy and I believe he was trying to do what he thought best, as well as the rest of the group. We have seen the scenario countless times over the years, hell, the original co-founder split over some such. It is hard to juggle competing interests in a digital world, but focus on the goid of the guild, as I have seen you doing, is the best approach.