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Sini #102982 08/09/12 07:02 PM
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I agree the VP will make a massive impact. In other years, in other elections, not so much. But this year, yea that one pick will either give romney and company a boost or it will be a death toll.

Sini #102984 08/09/12 07:12 PM
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I don't know about V.P. but if I were him I'd definitely pick Ron Paul for my Treasury Secretary. I think he should pick Rand for his running mate but I know that won't happen.

I happen to agree with Derid. I think that Obama is actively and intentionally evil. I disagree about Palin though. She may be naive but I don't think she's stupid.

I don't particularly care for Romney either but, he's not a communist. :)
Originally Posted By: Daye
You want the top job ? You need to be a bit more transparent about your life.
Obama is demonstrably the least transparent president we've ever had. Even his autobiography is admittedly a collection of half truths and misinformation. I cannot for the life of me figure out why Romney's people don't at least mention that every time someone asks for his tax returns.

As for the tax returns, meh, he's not required to release them and the only reason the Dems want him to is so they can point out how much money he makes while completely ignoring how much he gives away. If he's managed to legally dodge taxes then good for him, maybe he'll fix that if elected. But rest assured, if he had done ANYTHING illegal on his tax returns this administration would know about it and would have used it by now. Instead they have Harry Reidless out making ridiculous and completely baseless claims, because they know the MSM will report it and no one will pay attention to the retraction.


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Kaotic #102996 08/10/12 06:23 AM
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Originally Posted By: Kaotic
I think that Obama is actively and intentionally evil.


I think both of you allowed partisanship to cloud your judgment. You could still be called rational if you, for example, seen Obama as incompetent or misguided, but seeing him as intentionally evil is a symptom of critical thinking failure of poisoning of information supply.


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Kaotic #102997 08/10/12 06:28 AM
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Originally Posted By: Kaotic
Obama is demonstrably the least transparent president we've ever had.


Lets go through a mental exercise - name 3 things that Obama could do to become more transparent. Now name other 3 presidents that have also done these steps.

After going through this exercise you will realize that Obama's transparency is average to above average. Yes, he explicitly promised to be more transparent, but under-performing on his promise wasn't the way you chose to criticize him.


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Sini #103002 08/10/12 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted By: sinij
Originally Posted By: Kaotic
I think that Obama is actively and intentionally evil.


I think both of you allowed partisanship to cloud your judgment. You could still be called rational if you, for example, seen Obama as incompetent or misguided, but seeing him as intentionally evil is a symptom of critical thinking failure of poisoning of information supply.


I hold abusing the power of your office to advance your personal agenda , as well as ignoring the rule of law even though your oath was to uphold it, as well as using the power of your office to enrich your cronies as evil things. I do not think he is evil for the sake of evil in of itself like some supervillian caricature, rather he simply does things to advance his own power with no regard to whether or not it is evil.

You can think what you want. When he took office I did not hold this view, rather I have slowly come to it. I think you are rather making assumptions based on your own partisan view. But from funneling billions to cronies, to expanding the police state, to other things much too numerous to get into here - there is plenty of evidence to support my view.

I think you should pay more attention to what he does, not what he says, and not the hope you hold out in your heart for him.

I think in regards to partisanship, you are the one falls prey to that type of thinking - your constant theme is one of "vs the GOP" , I do not think I have seen you objectively frame any argument. It always comes back to "vs the GOP", and it really gives the impression that you project your own tendencies toward partisanship on others and just assume it taints their thinking.

Your tendency to make unfounded assumptions about others, and then throw in backhanded insults based on those assumptions is pretty much why you sometimes get a less than warm reception from people just FYI.


For who could be free when every other man's humour might domineer over him? - John Locke (2nd Treatise, sect 57)
Derid #103003 08/10/12 07:30 AM
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Lets try this again. Name 3 things that make Obama evil. How does it compares to Nixon (it is a stretch, but lets use it as an example of evil) administration?

For added fun, and since this is Romney thread, convince me that Romney would do different.

Last edited by sinij; 08/10/12 07:31 AM.

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Sini #103008 08/10/12 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted By: sinij
I think both of you allowed partisanship to cloud your judgment. You could still be called rational if you, for example, seen Obama as incompetent or misguided, but seeing him as intentionally evil is a symptom of critical thinking failure of poisoning of information supply.
Frank Marshal Davis - Look him up.

Transparency
more transparency
Had to pass a law to get details...
Memo detailing how transparent they will be. Apparently they thought that you could just say they'd be transparent and no one would question them about it.
Obama's definition of transparency How many of these have they followed up on?
He illegally used executive privilege to conceal information concerning fast and furious records. Unless, of course, he was briefed, but he says he wasn't.

He said "no lobbyists in my white house" and then promptly hired a dozen or so and granted waivers to several others to continue operating as they had in the past.

He promised to televise the healthcare debate. Didn't happen.

He promised all new laws would be posted online for 5 days before he signed them so we could all comment on them. Failed to do this on his very first one (it was posted, but he'd already signed it), and only every one after that.

Subversively removed FBI training materials related to Islamist extremism and allowed folks with ties to terrorist organizations to dictate what training material would be allowed.

Countless statements and retractions and late Friday document dumps in hopes no one will see them.

The list goes on and on. Perhaps other president's did these things too, but Obama promised to be different. No so much.


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Sini #103010 08/10/12 08:32 AM
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I consider Nixon the worst President in modern history, wwho set the stage for most of our current problems. He was also corrupt as shit, liked to spy on Americans, and arguing who is more evil between him and Obama is like arguing the differences between Stalin and Hitler.

We wont be able to compare and contrast the two properly until Obama has been out of office and we start learning more about what has been really happening.

I also am not sure Romney would be any better, I just think that since Obama is now a known quantity he should certainly not be entrusted with 4 more years.

---

Some things about Obama -

1) Administration worked to keep Bradley Manning in torture-like conditions to force a confession.

2) Federal grants, loans and other cash basically ended up in the pockets of the "whos who" list of Dem donors and associated political families. (Gores, Kennedies among big recievers).

3) Wont cough up the Fast n Furious docs, claiming executive privilege. This program was run at the operational level by career gun control activists and surfaced emails have indicated that the top levels of the Administration were aware of its doings and responsible for the way it went. It was in fact a political maneuver.

4) Bringing numerous Federal cases against whistleblowers.

5) Has an "enemies list" much like Nixon. Uses the power of his office to intimidate, harass.

6) Axed 20k Delphi pensions during auto bailouts because they werent union.

7) Fights transparency even harder than Bush. Thats quite an accomplishment. http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0312/73606.html

8) Midnight signing of NDAA.


Theres 8... I might post up some more later just for the hell of it, but now I should probably do some actual work.

edit: had to add number 8

Last edited by Derid; 08/10/12 08:33 AM.

For who could be free when every other man's humour might domineer over him? - John Locke (2nd Treatise, sect 57)
Derid #103011 08/10/12 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted By: Derid
6) Axed 20k Delphi pensions during auto bailouts because they werent union.


Delphi as in Delphi Automotive? I've worked for them (under contract now with Hewlett-Packard) for 15 years.. This is true then but the stories one could tell of the unions there.. Won't get into the fray but just wanted to confirm this is the Delphi you speak of.



Sini #103012 08/10/12 08:57 AM
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Yes, thats the Delphi I am referring to. Big presence here in Ohio.. as you are obviously aware.


For who could be free when every other man's humour might domineer over him? - John Locke (2nd Treatise, sect 57)
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