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Originally Posted By: Arkh

I don't care about gun homicide rates

Clearly.

Quote:
Also, what is the percentage of gun homicide in the US where the killer is legally owning his gun?


Legal and illegal ownership are tied. You fixate on "criminals with guns" and conveniently forget that all guns started as legally owned. It is just "legally owned gun" in US is such poorly defined and regulated concept that transition to "illegally owned" is so easy.

Quote:
But one little thing in your study: "the study included [...]Canada, [...] New Zealand, [...] Sweden" in those countries you can carry a gun. And their gun related homicide rate is low. Which means this rate is not only due to gun carry laws.


Yes, and I am not arguing that we should ban all guns, period, ever. What I am arguing is that licensing, tracking and registration should follow similar system to car ownership, that is if you plan to take your gun/car outside your property line you have to have a) license b) insurance against negative effects cause by c) have it registered and renewed on a regular basis.

Again, I am not against gun ownership unless we are talking assault and fully automatic weapon ownership.


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Originally Posted By: Wolfgang
Arkh, you must know Sinij is just going to keep pulling up stuff trying to prove how bad guns are.


Don't worry, I don't actually expect you to be able to see outside your dogmatic tunnel vision. After all, No True Conservative should be persuaded by "stuff" like facts and data.


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Originally Posted By: sinij
Originally Posted By: Arkh

I don't care about gun homicide rates

Clearly.

Your quoting-half-of-a-sentence-fu is powerfull.

Originally Posted By: sinij
Yes, and I am not arguing that we should ban all guns, period, ever. What I am arguing is that licensing, tracking and registration should follow similar system to car ownership, that is if you plan to take your gun/car outside your property line you have to have a) license b) insurance against negative effects cause by c) have it registered and renewed on a regular basis.

I can only agree with that.

Originally Posted By: sinij
Again, I am not against gun ownership unless we are talking assault and fully automatic weapon ownership.

But not with that.


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Well, we agree to half disagree then.

My personal view on automatic weapons is that we are outside of traditional definition of guns and into "tools of war" territory. You shouldn't be able to own such weapons for the same reason you shouldn't be able to own a tank or cruise missile - potential for collateral is too great.


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Just so you know Sinij, Fully automatic weapons are illegal. Just thought you should know that little fact!

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Are you sure?

Gun laws by state.


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None of those list automatic weapons because they are regulated by the federal government, not the state. However, with the proper license it is legal to own nearly any type of firearm/explosive up to and including a tank.

Edit:
Additionally, you made the assertion that all guns owned by criminals were originally legally purchased. That is an inaccurate statement at best. In fact, you need look no further than our own government's ineptitude resulting in the forfeiture of a great many guns to Mexican drug cartels.

Last edited by Kaotic; 02/02/12 07:19 PM.

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I should have known Sinij would make a sweeping claim. As Kaotic mentioned, If you do NOT have a special license you cannot own a fully automatic weapon. There are special licensing for those things and not just any Joe Schmo would be able to acquire such licenses.

If you ever watch the show Sons of Guns, Will Hayden always talks about needing to have a special license for some of the guns, ect that he modifies.

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Originally Posted By: sinij
Are you sure?

Gun laws by state.


I am pretty sure that the simplified listing of laws that it shows is completely misleading.

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Originally Posted By: Kaotic
However, with the proper license it is legal to own nearly any type of firearm/explosive up to and including a tank.


How that contradicts anything I said?

For example, can you explain to me why would anyone ever need to own M60. To repel loyalist invasion?


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