The KGB Oracle Forums General Public Discussion (SPECIAL ACCESS) KGB Political Debate Central I knew this would happen...

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/aug/8/obama-renews-call-for-tax-cuts-jobless-benefits/

Are you fucking kidding me? all this flak about spending and he wants to go out and spend more? How about lets figure out the real problem, instead of throwing fucking money at it. Because the last Stimulus worked SO WELL we need to borrow MORE.

Lets address the EPA and regulations. I've said this before, regulation IS needed. But you do not have to choke busniess with regulation. Have regulation with bite, and use the full authority of that regualtion. It's like having over 15,000 gun laws, yet crmininals still get guns and committ crimes. The only people you hurt in this situation, is the people TRYING TO FUCKING PROTECT THEMSELVES. This is the same problem with regualtion. You have a bunch of them that do nothing except making it more difficult for the business trying to create jobs without having that "hidden tax" called regulation.

Sure fine, lets borrow another fucking $14 trillion and call it wraps on good old America. NEWSFLASH FUCKERS, Government doesn't create jobs needed to get a REAL RECOVERY and stable economy. It's called the PRIVATE SECTOR. America didn't become America because of Government... GODDAMMIT!

Who do you think is going to vote for him?

Repukes give all kinds of tax cuts and subsidy to there Corp. masters.

Why can't Odumbo give the same to his unwashed masses of idiot entitlement slackers.

Yes, who needs EPA? Lets go with Chinese model. This will also solve our SS issues, because nobody would make it that far.

Also, lets as part of the stimulus give everyone a gun. Give two to the poor. This way when London-style riots happen they will be over within couple hours in a massive shootouts.

Why stop here, lets cut more taxes for mega rich, because 15%-17% most pay is too damn high, and trickle down really raised level of living in China, India and every other country American jobs went to.

Also, it is not like Government won WW2, put man on the moon, built highway system and so on, so who needs firefighters, police, libraries, sewage, clean air, pensions and education. If people actually wanted these things they would BUY it from PRIVATE SECTOR.

Your arguing against a straw man sinij. I do not think anyone is saying gov't should do nothing, but people need ro recognize that there are very strong limits on what the gov't the Federal Gov't especially can realistically achieve.

With the exception of WW2 and NASA and highways, all of which were military based ( the proper and primary function of the Federals ) most of what you listed is, and is best, addressed at the State level.

Clean air is meddled with by the Feds, sometimes with success... and sometimes the regulations are just implemented to make certain lobbies happy - lobbies that are acting as political proxies in economic battles between elite corps. Recognizing which are which takes effort and thought, the EPA solution is not something that can be determined with one-line zingers by any "side". It is a complex issue, with lots of corrupt influence on both "sides" and should be looked at as such.

So many people want to break down issues as "this or that" , when the "this or that" is nothing more than the way the media is currently framing a debate.

The EPA has done a lot of good. The EPA has also done a lot of harm.

Supply side economics is widely misunderstood, by both fans and detractors. True supply side revolves around focusing on the basic ability to supply.

Liberals get it wrong, because they assume demand alone can create wealth. When you look at most of the world, you see this is inherently not the case. Billions of people want and even need all sorts of things that are beyond them, because noone is able to supply it at a price within their means.

Anyhow, Keynesian economics is mostly crap. Austrian economics is far and away the most rational, Von Mises speaks with the most clarity and sense.

The bottom line though, is people have to be able to produce. When you stifle that ability, you get Communism - not in the "left vs right" rhetorical sense, but in the sense that Communists were all poor as shit because the gov't, fundamentally did not ALLOW people to create wealth. Wealth can be created, and not simply distributed.... but the gov't can never achieve it, and never has achieved it.

The most gov't can hope to do, is protect an environment where people are able to create it themselves.

Very well said Derid!

I never said Government doesn't have a role. It's limited government that I'm talking about. I don't think it's a bad thing to have limited government that is able to do math. Is that to much to ask out of our government?

"Limited Government" you and your fellow Tea party compatriots are calling for is government without any kind of meaningful regulation or ability to control. You might have libertarian utopia in mind but I guarantee you that something will step into power vacuum and you will likely end up with a form of Corporatism.

We have seen where deregulation leads us - market crash of 2001, market crash of 2008 and destruction of the middle class and we are still not out of the woods. You see, Private Sector cannot be trusted to be socially responsible or even to act in self-interest in a long term. You can thank system of Golden Parachutes, but your beloved Private Sector will kill, rape and pillage to get their bonuses.

If you want to talk about LIMITED GOVERNMENT you need to talk about UNLIMITED CORPORATE RESPONSIBILITY and/or END OF CORPORATE PERSONHOOD. Until then more regulation is almost universally better than alternative.