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Originally Posted By: Derid

Jey the reason the CBO was able to initially predict a deficit reduction, was because of the ENORMOUS level of taxes and fees imposed by the Obamacare bill, not because anything was being made more efficient.

I will probably not write in depth until Monday, but for now - on top of all the portions that have yet to recieve funding, and the huge taxes - its safe to say that there is no efficeny present. Did you take a look at that flowchart that plotted out the huge beuaracracy? Uhg.

Also, the estimates have been revised now to put the cost about 170B in the red... will post sources later when I address the bill in more depth.

Part of the problem, is that some of the base assumptions on revenue are flawed... not due to sloppy work on the part of the CBO - but rather revenues for yet to be implemented taxes are simply hard to nail down, because they depend heavily on market forces.

One example is that Obamacare introduces a 3.9% tax on all home sales. Obviously the type of revenue this tax will produce is an uncertainty, it depends on home prices and market activity.

Another example is raising the Capital Gains tax... but the more you raise the tax, the less economic activity occurs... and also the general market will fluctuate... making predicting revenues from said activity hard to predict.

Yet another factor, is changing estimates due to the number of companies that are expected to continue providing employer-based insurance as opposed to State managed health-exchanges. This number is being steadily revised downward, as under Obamacare it will be simpler and cheaper for most companies to simply stop offering insurance, and pay the fines instead.

Jet, why dont you stop for a minutes and actually "look" at what Obamacare is and does. Not what it was supposed to be, not what Obama said it would be, but what it actually is.

Good intentions do not necessarily translate into good policy. It just seems that you are so into what Obamacare intended to be, that you have yet to look at what it actually is or does.



I would love to see where you are getting those figures. I have some more to post myself.


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Originally Posted By: JetStar

Icky, just so you know, I dont personally benefit from Obamacare, but many people I know will. It has nothing to do with me.

I got some more research to do to catch up with Derid.


Jet, you actually know someone who will benefit?

I honestly dont, all I know are people who a) will have their job in danger , b) people whose employer based plan will become degraded and lose their current coverage they are happy with, c) people who will have to lay people off and cut their employees hours , d) people who if this economy continues, are in danger of losing their business, and are further threatened by these huge taxes and e) people who will lose their employer based insurance , and have to seek private or govt insurance because they think their company seems likely to drop employee insurance.


Also, a research report detailing some of the CBO assumptions, changes, etc.

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Reports/2010/09/The-Uncertainty-of-Health-Care-Projections

Last edited by Derid; 11/21/10 10:23 PM.

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Originally Posted By: JetStar

Icky, just so you know, I dont personally benefit from Obamacare, but many people I know will. It has nothing to do with me.

I got some more research to do to catch up with Derid.


I understand and I'm all for helping people who truly need it, honestly I think we all as Americans do, but unfortunately I don't think distribution of wealth from the rich to the poor isn't the answer. We need to empower people and create jobs that will be marketable and competitive in the world market. To do this we need small business and innovation and unfortunately as long as I can remember taxing the rich to give to the poor, and those poor who take advantage of the system, is not the way.

I'll let you catch up with Derid on this and save our discussions to a later time smile



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Originally Posted By: JetStar

Icky, just so you know, I dont personally benefit from Obamacare, but many people I know will. It has nothing to do with me.

It's easy to be generous with other people's money.


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Originally Posted By: Derid
Jet, you actually know someone who will benefit?

I honestly dont, all I know are people who a) will have their job in danger , b) people whose employer based plan will become degraded and lose their current coverage they are happy with, c) people who will have to lay people off and cut their employees hours , d) people who if this economy continues, are in danger of losing their business, and are further threatened by these huge taxes and e) people who will lose their employer based insurance , and have to seek private or govt insurance because they think their company seems likely to drop employee insurance.


I know lots of people who have existing conditions, and cant get insurance at all right now. I also know a friend who got cancer, then got cancelled after 1 year of treatment. That wont happen anymore either.

What you are saying sounds like the text from an insurance lobby hate commercial. I think it is all FUD (Fear, uncertainty, and doubt) from the insurance industry.


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Originally Posted By: Arkh
Originally Posted By: JetStar

Icky, just so you know, I dont personally benefit from Obamacare, but many people I know will. It has nothing to do with me.

It's easy to be generous with other people's money.


It is actually my money, I am paying and not getting anything but fell good knowing they cant screw people like they used to. More is needed for sure, and this is not perfect, but it is a start.


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Yes why start with perfect when you can start at the bottom and work your way up and costing billions of extra just to start it.

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Originally Posted By: Helemoto
Yes why start with perfect when you can start at the bottom and work your way up and costing billions of extra just to start it.


Yeah why not just block all legislation to keep a President from being able to conduct any business. Then when your bonehead Sarah Palin is president, we can proceed to destroy what is left of the United States.


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First off when did she become my bonehead Sarah Palin.

Second my point was why pass something that needs work, like hey guys I just built a time machine but it only goes to one day 6/15/2010, but dont worry I will spend 999 billion and 15 years of fighting with my wife to make it work like it should.

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Originally Posted By: Helemoto
First off when did she become my bonehead Sarah Palin.

Second my point was why pass something that needs work, like hey guys I just built a time machine but it only goes to one day 6/15/2010, but dont worry I will spend 999 billion and 15 years of fighting with my wife to make it work like it should.


Your estimates are totally wrong compared to the CBO report. I have to read Derid's latest, but per the last report, those inflated numbers are just propaganda.


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