The KGB Oracle
Serving the online gaming community since 1997
Visit www.the-kgb.com
For additional information

Join KGB DISCORD: http://discord.gg/KGB
 
KGB Information
Untitled 1

Visit KGB HQ
www.the-kgb.com

Who's Online Now
0 members (), 29 guests, and 26 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
ShoutChat
Comment Guidelines: Do post respectful and insightful comments. Don't flame, hate, spam.
Today's Birthdays
Devan Omega
Newest Members
Luckystrikes, Shingen, BillNyeCommieSpy, Lamp, AllenGlines
1,477 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums53
Topics13,094
Posts116,355
Members1,477
Most Online276
Aug 3rd, 2023
Top Likes Received (30 Days)
None yet
Top Posters(30 Days)
Popular Topics(Views)
1,987,444 Trump card
1,324,088 Picture Thread
473,917 Romney
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 7 of 13 1 2 5 6 7 8 9 12 13
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 12,986
Likes: 44
JetStar Offline OP
(GM10) KGB High King
KGB Federal Faction
(F5) High Chancellor
KGB New World Faction
KGB Oracle Administrator
Founded KGB in 1997
****
OP Offline
(GM10) KGB High King
KGB Federal Faction
(F5) High Chancellor
KGB New World Faction
KGB Oracle Administrator
Founded KGB in 1997
****
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 12,986
Likes: 44
You got to pay to play, and if we want the programs we have, we have to pay for them. We have to get rid of the lobbying, and if you look at the FRONTLINES that I posted, especially Obamacare, you will see that it is the corruption that costs us the most.

I am not saying higher taxes are good, I am saying if we are going to spend 700b we have to pay for it somehow.


[Linked Image from w3.the-kgb.com][Linked Image from oracle.the-kgb.com]
Star Citizen Hanger:
RSI Javelin Destroyer, Hull E, RSI Constellation Pheonix, Aegis Dynamics Retaliator, Banu Merchantman
F7A Military Hornet Upgrade, F7C-S Hornet Ghost, F7C-R Hornet Tracker, Origin 325a Fighter
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 12,986
Likes: 44
JetStar Offline OP
(GM10) KGB High King
KGB Federal Faction
(F5) High Chancellor
KGB New World Faction
KGB Oracle Administrator
Founded KGB in 1997
****
OP Offline
(GM10) KGB High King
KGB Federal Faction
(F5) High Chancellor
KGB New World Faction
KGB Oracle Administrator
Founded KGB in 1997
****
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 12,986
Likes: 44
I was all for the expansion of Medicare to offer a public option. This would be much like the Post office vs Fed EX and UPS.

It is not profitable to offer all the services that the postal service does, having post offices in small towns, etc. But the Post office keeps the shipping industry honest. This is exactly what I was hoping for with healthcare.


[Linked Image from w3.the-kgb.com][Linked Image from oracle.the-kgb.com]
Star Citizen Hanger:
RSI Javelin Destroyer, Hull E, RSI Constellation Pheonix, Aegis Dynamics Retaliator, Banu Merchantman
F7A Military Hornet Upgrade, F7C-S Hornet Ghost, F7C-R Hornet Tracker, Origin 325a Fighter
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 12,986
Likes: 44
JetStar Offline OP
(GM10) KGB High King
KGB Federal Faction
(F5) High Chancellor
KGB New World Faction
KGB Oracle Administrator
Founded KGB in 1997
****
OP Offline
(GM10) KGB High King
KGB Federal Faction
(F5) High Chancellor
KGB New World Faction
KGB Oracle Administrator
Founded KGB in 1997
****
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 12,986
Likes: 44
If you look at Fortune Magazine's 10 most profitable industries you will see this:

1 Network and Other Communications Equipment 28.8
2 Mining, Crude-Oil Production 23.8
3 Pharmaceuticals 15.8
4 Medical Products and Equipment 15.2
5 Oil and Gas Equipment, Services 13.7
6 Commercial Banks 12.6
7 Railroads 12.4
8 Entertainment 12.4
9 Insurance: Life, Health (stock) 10.6
10 Household and Personal Products 10.2

Three of the top 10 are health industry related.


[Linked Image from w3.the-kgb.com][Linked Image from oracle.the-kgb.com]
Star Citizen Hanger:
RSI Javelin Destroyer, Hull E, RSI Constellation Pheonix, Aegis Dynamics Retaliator, Banu Merchantman
F7A Military Hornet Upgrade, F7C-S Hornet Ghost, F7C-R Hornet Tracker, Origin 325a Fighter
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,653
Likes: 6
Chief Justice
KGB Supreme Court
****
Offline
Chief Justice
KGB Supreme Court
****
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,653
Likes: 6
And I am saying we should not be spending the 700b. In fact that is the entire gist of what I am saying in general - the spending has to stop. The govt expansion has to stop. The welfare state was barely sustainable as it was, adding to it will not help.

Typically, the first step of getting out of a hole is to stop digging. Instead Obama and Pelosi busted out the largest set of mining equipment they could find and went to go find a new path to China. Thats a problem. It seems natural to me, to question the wisdom of expanding govt and spending to record levels when your currency is already weak and your economy already teetering on the brink of depression.

You are correct about corruption costing, just remember that the more bureaucracy we accumulate, the more corruption we will have to deal with. Every layer of bureaucracy that gets added, makes accountability that much further removed from your average joe.

E
Ebola
Unregistered
Ebola
Unregistered
E
Originally Posted By: Tasorin
Flat Tax!!

No Exemptions.

No Married Status.

Everyone files separately.

Under $44,000 = 0%

$44,000-$70,000 = 9%

$70,000 - $150,000 = 16%

$150,000 - $210,000 = 21%

$210,000 and over = 26%

Its not wealth distribution, its called fair taxation with due representation...

How is it "fair" that if I bust my ass and produce more than the next guy then I should be penalized with heavier taxes?
Due representation? Do I get more votes since I work harder and pay more?
Do I get access to more and better services due to my extra "contributions" to the social programs?

Lets say you work some crap job for $10/hr... some other lazy bastard only wants to work part time at a fast food joint for $6/hr. Is it "only fair" that you give him a fat slice of your income to make up the difference between his inherent laziness and your work ethic?

This twisting of the definition of the word "fair" by the envy class is offensive. The true definition of the word is "reasonable or unbiased". That would mean that you cannot use the tired old line "well they have less, so its only fair", as that exibits a clear bias in favor of the people who have less, and a bias against those who have more.

I should not have to pay extra because you are too goddamned lazy to support yourselves.

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,876
Likes: 10
KGB Supreme Court Justice
KGB Supreme Knight
****
Offline
KGB Supreme Court Justice
KGB Supreme Knight
****
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,876
Likes: 10
Originally Posted By: JetStar
Originally Posted By: Derid
Originally Posted By: JetStar


You should read more on Who before you judge them on one sentence. They are a 62 year old highly respected organization.


I have read plenty about the org in the past. What I looked for in that particular report, as I initially indicated I would, was the criteria used to concoct that ranking.

I am not saying the entire Org itself has never done anything usefull.. but using a report that ranks countries by their Socialization level of Health care as evidence that USA Health care quality and availability ranked below that of other, more heavily Socialized countries was a non-starter.

I mean come on, Colombia having better medical care than the USA?


And Social Security and Medicare... were more or less tolerable, structurally speaking, under the later Clinton years I would say. I am not going to argue for or against relatively minor changes, but as society had come to depend on them, it would be unwise to suddenly remove or alter them in any significant fashion.

Also, people have already paid into them. If you paid your medicare/SS taxes all your life you certainly have a valid claim to reap the return.


But in your definition, this is socialism in your definition!

What about the taxes and funding the wars in my post above?

Read the "Road to servitude" from Hayek.
He wrote it in England during WWII. Because of the fact it is the kind of times when using all efforts towards one goal shows its efficiency.

The problem during peace period is everyone has different goals in life. So where one will want efforts to go to health, other will prefer it to help fight against poverty in the world, or get everyone a car, or whatever...
Everytime you tax someone to do something, you have to go against his right to use his property.

Another problem is, all would be good if we had super humans to make all the good decisions for us on top. But those people are just humans so they err. Worst, the more power politics have, the worst kind of people (ethic wise) it attracts. So you get power hungry fuckers which only goal is to be elected, not people's well being. Usually they start creating a lot of systems to either bypass any need to get elected to get some power or they created big barriers to newcomers.


[Linked Image from w3.the-kgb.com][Linked Image from w3.the-kgb.com]
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 12,986
Likes: 44
JetStar Offline OP
(GM10) KGB High King
KGB Federal Faction
(F5) High Chancellor
KGB New World Faction
KGB Oracle Administrator
Founded KGB in 1997
****
OP Offline
(GM10) KGB High King
KGB Federal Faction
(F5) High Chancellor
KGB New World Faction
KGB Oracle Administrator
Founded KGB in 1997
****
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 12,986
Likes: 44
Originally Posted By: Derid
And I am saying we should not be spending the 700b. In fact that is the entire gist of what I am saying in general - the spending has to stop. The govt expansion has to stop. The welfare state was barely sustainable as it was, adding to it will not help.

Typically, the first step of getting out of a hole is to stop digging. Instead Obama and Pelosi busted out the largest set of mining equipment they could find and went to go find a new path to China. Thats a problem. It seems natural to me, to question the wisdom of expanding govt and spending to record levels when your currency is already weak and your economy already teetering on the brink of depression.

You are correct about corruption costing, just remember that the more bureaucracy we accumulate, the more corruption we will have to deal with. Every layer of bureaucracy that gets added, makes accountability that much further removed from your average joe.


What about George Bush! The money spent on the Wars are never coming back. Thats the 700b I am talking about.

TARP is repaid with interest!


[Linked Image from w3.the-kgb.com][Linked Image from oracle.the-kgb.com]
Star Citizen Hanger:
RSI Javelin Destroyer, Hull E, RSI Constellation Pheonix, Aegis Dynamics Retaliator, Banu Merchantman
F7A Military Hornet Upgrade, F7C-S Hornet Ghost, F7C-R Hornet Tracker, Origin 325a Fighter
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,653
Likes: 6
Chief Justice
KGB Supreme Court
****
Offline
Chief Justice
KGB Supreme Court
****
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,653
Likes: 6

What about him? You know well that I did not support Bush. Raising taxes to pay for those wars does not appear to be necessity.

I am talking about long term structural issues, regarding recurring and ballooning expenses. Though TARP is questionable. Long term, politicizing banking will do liekly more harm than a non-TARP meltdown. Though finance is such a complex issue, it cannot be intelligently discussed with one and two liners, and how alternatives would have worked will forever be entirely speculative.

Also talking about our current Obama supported monetary policy where the Fed just keeps printing more and more cash to inflate our way into less debt. ( relatively speaking )

Again you make my point though, with all the Bush expenses - combined with the general state of the deficit and economy, how can you begin to justify Obamacare.

You also havent responded to any of my queries.

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,526
Likes: 1
KGB Supreme Knight
****
Offline
KGB Supreme Knight
****
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,526
Likes: 1
Cause like a good Liberal he just throws a bunch of so called facts at you hoping to distract you as he bends you over and slips it in.

Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 12,986
Likes: 44
JetStar Offline OP
(GM10) KGB High King
KGB Federal Faction
(F5) High Chancellor
KGB New World Faction
KGB Oracle Administrator
Founded KGB in 1997
****
OP Offline
(GM10) KGB High King
KGB Federal Faction
(F5) High Chancellor
KGB New World Faction
KGB Oracle Administrator
Founded KGB in 1997
****
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 12,986
Likes: 44
Originally Posted By: Derid

What about him? You know well that I did not support Bush. Raising taxes to pay for those wars does not appear to be necessity.

I am talking about long term structural issues, regarding recurring and ballooning expenses. Though TARP is questionable. Long term, politicizing banking will do liekly more harm than a non-TARP meltdown. Though finance is such a complex issue, it cannot be intelligently discussed with one and two liners, and how alternatives would have worked will forever be entirely speculative.

Also talking about our current Obama supported monetary policy where the Fed just keeps printing more and more cash to inflate our way into less debt. ( relatively speaking )

Again you make my point though, with all the Bush expenses - combined with the general state of the deficit and economy, how can you begin to justify Obamacare.

You also havent responded to any of my queries.


Lets talk about Obamacare. The CBO - The congressional budget office is a non-partisan arm of the congress. They were required to report on the impact of HR 3950. I am going to quote fro that report that was submitted to congress.
Quote:
H.R. 3590 would, among other things, establish a mandate for most
residents of the United States to obtain health insurance; set up insurance
exchanges through which certain individuals and families could receive
federal subsidies to substantially reduce the cost of purchasing that
coverage; significantly expand eligibility for Medicaid; substantially reduce
the growth of Medicare’s payment rates for most services (relative to the
growth rates projected under current law); impose an excise tax on
insurance plans with relatively high premiums; and make various other
changes to the federal tax code, Medicare, Medicaid, and other programs.
The reconciliation proposal includes provisions related to health care and
revenues, many of which would amend H.R. 3590. (The changes with the
largest budgetary effects are described below.) The reconciliation proposal
also includes amendments to the Higher Education Act of 1965, which
authorizes most federal programs involving postsecondary education.
(Those provisions and their budgetary effects are described below as well.)
Estimated Budgetary Impact of the Legislation
CBO and JCT estimate that enacting both pieces of legislation—H.R. 3590
and the reconciliation proposal—would produce a net reduction in federal
deficits of $143 billion over the 2010–2019 period as result of changes in
direct spending and revenues (see Table 1). That figure comprises
$124 billion in net reductions deriving from the health care and revenue
provisions and $19 billion in net reductions deriving from the education
provisions. Approximately $114 billion of the total reduction would be onbudget;
other effects related to Social Security revenues and spending as
well as spending by the U.S. Postal Service are classified as off-budget.
CBO has not completed an estimate of the potential impact of the
legislation on discretionary spending, which would be subject to future
appropriation action.


A NET REDUCTION OF 143 BILLION DOLLARS!

I dont know why you choose to believe the liars from the right on this issue. These are the facts from the CBO.


[Linked Image from w3.the-kgb.com][Linked Image from oracle.the-kgb.com]
Star Citizen Hanger:
RSI Javelin Destroyer, Hull E, RSI Constellation Pheonix, Aegis Dynamics Retaliator, Banu Merchantman
F7A Military Hornet Upgrade, F7C-S Hornet Ghost, F7C-R Hornet Tracker, Origin 325a Fighter
Page 7 of 13 1 2 5 6 7 8 9 12 13

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5