The KGB Oracle Forums General Public Discussion (PUBLIC) The Pub Anyone know about Reactive Armor?

Hey guys, it's been awhile!

I have been taking this break away from DFO to work on developing some games of my own. I can assure you guys that you will all be the first to know if I have anything playable.

Right now, I am trying to research modern reactive armor. This is difficult for me since I'm a huge peace loving hippie.

I would love any info dump any of you guys could give me on the different types of reactive / active armor that are available, especially stuff made in this century.

If anyone can answer this specific question, that would be the best:

How does electromagnetic / Electric Reactive armor work against shaped charges, and how does it work against Kinetic Energy projectiles? Which is it more effective against?

Which types of armor are most effective against which types of attack?

Do any of you know of any other cool types of armor that aren't discussed on wikipedia? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reactive_armour http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_protection_system

Thanks! Hopefully I'll see you guys in game again when they allow DFO transfers.

My military knowledge, which is somewhat limited as time has passed and current technologies have become legacy technology, is of the armor types Sloped, Composite, Caged, and Reactive all have different properties, yet in limited ways can serve multiple purposes.

Sloped can deflect projectiles in most cases and is a primary measure for older armors, however with todays technologies it is not enough, Chobham is a excellent example of a composite and is currently the standard for most armored vehicles. From what I know, composites generally are used to disperse kinetic energies, while reactive armor types produce a explosive response to a incoming shape charge which prevents penetration, but are not very well suited for kinetic rounds, or high velocity impactors such as a depleted unranium/tungstun darts most commonly used in sabot rounds.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_armour

The military is currently interested not in traditional armor types but in reactive stealth, such as light dispersal to effectively create a invisibility field, like that of "Predator", I know they have been looking at nano tech, and light weight super desity materials, projects aimed at producing armors that can reconstruct or alter shape, some technologies that can mask a targets heat, profile, eletromegnetic signature, radar signature/cross section as per stealth as we know it today. Ceramics, Microtechnology, Particle physics, material science and engineering are areas I'd look into for clues about the future of armor, specifically anything having to do with generating energy fields in relation to specific materials.

Will kinetic rounds actually set off explosive-reactive armor?

Depends on the vehicle I think, I wasn't a tanker in the army, so I could be wrong. The way the layering effect is of some armors is the deciding factor, generally explosive reactives are sandwiched between other layers of armor, and so I would assume that the triggers would initiate regardless of the round type in question if the overall armor was breached deeply enough. Though it depends on the location hit, it's actual protective composition, and the type of round making the impact. Small arms fire generally should not initiate any explosive reactive protection, however I cannot say with any certainty. I've never seen a explosive reaction due to kinetic impacts, especially small arms, so the way I am seeing it is that as a part of the layered complexity of armors today, the explosive reactive layer isn't triggered unless a kinetic round penetrates to that depth, and the ceramic/chabham combined with sloping and/or cage will deflect or disperse the force first before it reaches a reactive panel. Much more intensive arms, such as a sabbot round or a RPG may be enough to trigger such a response in the armor plating, thus the reason for having multiple layers of protection.

That actually makes sense to me, but in most of the pictures I've seen of tanks, they show big boxes on the side representing the reactive armor. In other words, they plate the heavy armor with reactive armor on top.



By the way, thanks for your replies!

That is why there is a move to copper and depleted uranium shape charges to penetrate armor. Heck they are even experimenting with composite plastic shape charges. Even with reactive armor trying to push the explosive force out and dissipate the kinetic force today's armor technology can't keep up with today's killing and destructive multiplier.

The new Apache Longbow and Darkstar type long range unmanned vehicles who can deliver over the horizon self guided quasi brilliant weapons by far out match what protections today's armor can provide.

The days of modern blitzkrieg style advancement are coming to a close short of non-super power battles fought with generations old technology. This is one of the reasons the Commies never came over the East/West Berlin Line or the DMZ in Korea. We have/had amassed enough destructive mid to short range fire power to simply drop back and level the field they would be advancing over.

The last time someone was stupid enough to march out on the field in a traditional large scale troop and armor movement was Vietnam and Gulf War I. In both cases as soon as the detachment became a viable target to combat power it was decimated by over the horizon tactical killing power.

Tanks are meant for holding positions and small to medium scale suppression and troop support in today's modern combat guerrilla tactics. No one, and I mean no one, short of China and Korea, and maybe some South American countries are crazy or stupid enough to march out armor and troops on to the battlefield in a traditional manner anymore.

Tas is right and more to the point, there is a huge difference between legacy armor and todays modern fighting machines, That is why the Abrams is so potent, it's use and it's design far outclass older armor designs such as depicted above. Though the Abrams Chabham armor is top secret to some degree we do know that it is made up of several layers of other materials and componets such as ceramics, and dense alloys. It is safe to assume there is also a reactive element there as well, however when you look at a Abrams do you see the explosive packs? No, so one must ask where are they, and if there isn't any reactive armor then how could a Abrams survive a explosive-energy shape charge? My money is on a hidden layer, a reactive composite, either that or what they've done is make the explosive panel much flatter and wider such that it appears as a plate of armor.



As a post note, some think that the Abrams armor has a suppressive foam or gelatin to disperse heat and kinetic force as might be in a shape charge or massive energy discharge, this gelatin is inert and has a sealant property, but that is wild speculation.

Depleted Uranium Armor Piercing rounds in excess of 80MM will put an Abrams out of commission. The problem with that is, there are only two countries with that technology to put that kind of fire power on target. Its just not the type of round, its also about technology and research that goes into the impact of the round. The weakest part of the tank is still the road wheel skirt. Which is why roadside IUD's can be problematic for tracked vehicle. Word is that the new H-Class of Abrams now has extra protection on the underbelly to deflect a lot of the explosive force from these types of attacks.

Modern tank killer rounds are dimpled/cupped in like a traditional hallow point round. The difference being that in the cup there is a cone that turns the traditional round into focused shape charge on top of being a tank busting material. Essentially it forms a supra hot jet that melts rather then blows up the armor. The effect being that in a several milliseconds the shape jet has pierced a small hole through the armor and allowed the explosive and kinetic force that follows to penetrate into the cabin of the tank. If the kinetic shock wave, or supra hot gasses, or explosion doesn't kill the tank crew, then the caustic deadly gas's from the depleted uranium will kill them shortly.

There is no immunity though to Artillery....

Long live the KING OF BATTLE!!