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Joined: Apr 2009
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The blood wall/skilling up is neither Evil nor a bad thing. A lot of people complain about people being at the blood wall and not out in groups and doing things, but make sure you consider the math. When I am (and I assume I am average) at the blood wall 98% of the time I am at work/in bed/doing house work, so the time spent there is not in place of playing the game, and the 2% of my blood wall time I am there, it is because I am training and not willing to donate 100ís of regs to reds and it is most efficient for my mace. I actually spend a lot more time gathering than I do at the blood wall (non-afk).

When I played my first mmo I had the attitude that macroing was cheating, I believed the only way you should gain skills was from fighting mobs/players. In a year playing A LOT I had 90 maces. I really didnít care if I was 100 or 50, than I discovered PvP. I found my self facing skilled people with a lot more experience PvPing. In the end I decided I either had to get competitive or abandon PvP. Even in this game I have noticed I did poorly when I was doing 9 points of damage and taking 34.

Intentionally training to gain skills is nothing new or KGB would not have been able to stand up to OPP/etc. I think I still have screen shots from 10 years ago giving resist partyís to help newer KGBers gain Magic Resist. In mmoís until your skills are maxed 90% of the time is gathering/training and preparing for the other 10% of the time PvP. I think this is the difference between shooters and mmo imho.

People are not willing to spend the time to naturally develop skills, listen to the complaints about the Ďgrindí. Those are people who are not willing to gain skill naturally or it wouldnít be a grind, it would be playing the game.

Many things contribute to success in battle but skills DO matter, TheMercs and many others have been kind enough to show us that. That is why we are homeless. All other things being equal, the most skilled person is going to win, itís a math thing. Skills are one of the things I can control to help influence the outcome of combat in my favor that I will develop as much and as fast as I can.

Last edited by Ismash Grimblood; 07/14/09 02:56 PM.
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Well said.


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I see your point Ismash, the problem it creates however is the fact that NONE of us newer players with kgb have any clue whatsoever of grouping with the older members and learing HOW to fight together as a unit. That only comes with long hours of practice as well, practice out in the field. TheMercs get away with bloodwall etc becuase they are the same group that has been together forever it seems like and KNOW exactly how each person reacts in a fight. You have to have both. We don't.


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Originally Posted By: Morg
... NONE of us newer players with kgb have any clue whatsoever of grouping with the older members and learing HOW to fight together as a unit. That only comes with long hours of practice as well, practice out in the field...


Your right, I agree, but it isnít the blood wall preventing that. In fact a lack of battle ready peeps is part of the problem causing that imho. I donít want to hijack my own thread but that is a whole separate issue with several causes and I believe JetStar has already mentioned they are working on organizing more activities. But we individuals need to work on skills before we can focus on group tactics. Again I do agree we need to learn things that can only be taught by Generals/ranking members based on policy, like do we run when we know we are about to die or wait for the order to pull out, what happens when the battle leader falls, if we a tactical withdraw do we rally at a specific point or just run until we arenít scared any more, etc.

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I am only on my second month and most of the players have already maxxed out alot of skills. Makes it hard to be usefull in pvp. BUT with daggerwalls and the second newest patch it is fairly easy to get to 50 ? I got 50 parrying in a couple hours at the daggerwall. I just got to 50 greatermagic and firebolt does alot more damage than MM. So maybe we should get everyone to 50 skill before pvp? Although you can always go out and have fun and get loot, everyone has been very genorous about sharing loot.

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We roll in groups on day 1. You can't be at your best by NOT rolling with your military group. And we have ZERO blood wall skills.

When I fight with Donk or Dunlop or Kay (whoever) I know what they are going to do given the number of enemies, terrain, etc, because I have fought with them for 3 months.

By contrast Spool was asking for some help with a pvper the other day and when I ran in to engage this gal, who had apparently taken out Spools pve group, I expected Spoool to start attacking while I engaged the enemy. Instead he ran over the hill toward town away from the fight.

I am not bagging on Spool but it's an example of 2 (or could be more) people never having fought together in battle. When he called for help I assumed he wanted help fighting the player and I engaged them on sight but he was alerting the clan and looking for more backup than just me I suppose.

Duo's are great but you really need to get into a larger raiding party. It doesn't have to be a full group of 10 but 6-7 in a group out raiding is going to get some good experience and most importantly start to mesh as a fighting unit.

Having an objective and knowing when to press and when to tactically retreat are also key elements of a successful raid.

Good luck everyone keep after it.

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Originally Posted By: Hare
We roll in groups on day 1. You can't be at your best by NOT rolling with your military group. And we have ZERO blood wall skills.

When I fight with Donk or Dunlop or Kay (whoever) I know what they are going to do given the number of enemies, terrain, etc, because I have fought with them for 3 months.

By contrast Spool was asking for some help with a pvper the other day and when I ran in to engage this gal, who had apparently taken out Spools pve group, I expected Spoool to start attacking while I engaged the enemy. Instead he ran over the hill toward town away from the fight.

I am not bagging on Spool but it's an example of 2 (or could be more) people never having fought together in battle. When he called for help I assumed he wanted help fighting the player and I engaged them on sight but he was alerting the clan and looking for more backup than just me I suppose.

Duo's are great but you really need to get into a larger raiding party. It doesn't have to be a full group of 10 but 6-7 in a group out raiding is going to get some good experience and most importantly start to mesh as a fighting unit.

Having an objective and knowing when to press and when to tactically retreat are also key elements of a successful raid.

Good luck everyone keep after it.



Again I didnít want to change the topic of the post which was just to address the Ďproblem of the blood wallí and to suggest that the blood wall/skills helps kgb not hurts. Skills do matter.

I agree with you, without training we do what is natural and what is natural for an individual is most likely not what should be the goal for a group. There is a reason the military trains and has minimum skill requirements. A large part of training is teaching people to do what isnít natural. An intelligent person pauses to think before shooting a person, thatís why you spend hours and hours pulling the trigger at a target that looks like a human. I think pretty much everybody agrees we need to learn to fight as a group and need to train as a group. That is a different subject. But my point was the blood wall and learning skills does not harm kgb. Yes we do need to learn to fight as a group and just not the lower ranks. But we are lacking group training/experiences and it is going to be bad for awhile as we lost more experienced leaders.

Skills are JUST ONE aspect of training. In fact you need experience/knowledge to utilize those skills effectively and you canít get them at the blood wall or on a message board. But the blood wall is not what prevents us from group fighting or hanging out. The blood wall isnít what prevents members from organizing training sessions, hunting parties, etc. The blood wall isnít what causes dead silence when somebody shouts out ďis anything going on, anybody out huntingĒ (even if you run into a group farming). [I have been on both ends of this, not just pointing fingers at others] The blood wall isnít what causes sane people from logging in and participating in a GROUP. Our blood wall isnít what causes us lose to enemies. Our blood wall isnít what causes our enemies to drop AOE and wipe huge amounts of us out over and over until they take our home or boat. Our blood wall isnít what causes a group Ĺ our size roll in and wipe is out.

From past experience I learned KGB was not beaten because we spent too much time training or had too many skills, we did well against enemies until members for whatever reason start spending more time in Vent chatting, on message boards, or running around alone, etc. than fighting with kgb, or just not logging in. When you see a pattern of more red around you than green in hostile situations the problem isnít too much training/skills.

Just my opinion, take it for what itís worth, not meant to attack any one.

Last edited by Ismash Grimblood; 07/16/09 12:44 PM.
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Originally Posted By: Ismash Grimblood
Again I do agree we need to learn things that can only be taught by Generals/ranking members based on policy, like do we run when we know we are about to die or wait for the order to pull out, what happens when the battle leader falls, if we a tactical withdraw do we rally at a specific point or just run until we arenít scared any more, etc.


I agree totally that the bloodwall isn't the problem. The problem is that the newer players (including myself) don't know the game and we lack the skills to compete. I'll admit that I'm hesitant to go out with people I don't know to hunt or go gathering because most of my experience with KGB in DFO has been losing. The success rate has been low, which isn't encouraging and I don't think my experience is unique and I think that is why we haven't earned each others trust yet.

I'd like battles to be better organized, 50% of my deaths in KGB have been because I was fighting with a group and when we start losing I notice that I am usually alone and no other green in sight. Where was the order to retreat? I consider this to be a military organization and I wait for orders before acting. I should never be surrounded by orange and left to die because a few people started dropping and people run off without the battle commander giving the order to retreat.

Another issue is when we split into groups, each group commander must stay in constant communication with the other groups, an example would be if they get overwhelmed and die. That information must be communicated to the other groups.

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Well, we're back to this monthly topic : we still need team sparing session organized.
It was said during the first month in Khosgar.
Then when we got in Andruk.
And now in Tiquyia.


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Wow thats a lot of hot air released for such s silly thread...

Here is my take...

The bloodwall is OK...

Thank you

Cheers
Grim


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