The KGB Oracle Forums The KGB Great Hall of History (ARCHIVE) Darkfall Members Forum Military

I have been looking over KGB common practices concerning the implimentation and organization of the current military structure recently.

I have recently made suggestions and voiced concern over how we as a guild have become too complacent with running our military in a predictable and somewhat limited fashion which directly conflicts with KGB ideologies and past methodologies in which we have made claims to.

I do not want anyone from this faction or past and current factions to think I am trying to damage their hard work or diminish their efforts and tear at the foundation of how they have operated, because up until this point we have managed to avoid scrutiny of our in game efforts by the greater majority of the gaming communities we operate in.

There in lies the problem however, we have not been scrutinized because we have not mattered, we have not made our presence felt, nor effectively made a impact upon any one game in a military sense. Many of our enemies both past and present most likely see KGB as a pve guild and I need ask, is this so? Have we become "that guild" which has softend over the years and grown long in the tooth? There is only so long that one can continuously cling to the past days of UO. To be taken seriously one must constantly evolve and grow, to project power far greater then our numbers or experiences would suggest, and constantly reinvent ourselves.

Am I suggesting we abandon the old faith, no although I do feel we should be looking to take the old faith and invigor it with new ideas and ways of conducting our business. To this end I ask you Derid how do you intend to do this? Is this something you have considered? Do you intend to empower our military and fully flesh out our organization for DFO?

On another note, how far is KGB and the High King willing to go to make our enemies stand up and take note of our presence? we cannot afford to continue our current mentalities if we are to gain strength, glory, and respect among our peers, some may say why should we care how others precieve us? To this I say it is how we are precived which dictates our efforts in many of the aspects associated with online gaming. Everything from recruiting to building and maintaining in game resources, to our alliances, and finally the well being of our own citizens and the fun and unity we could all share in.

I write this to you specifically Derid because I see that with a new faction we can work as a guild in new ways. The tap dancing around guild organization and structure needs addressing seriously and you could be the man to bring KGB into a second golden age of rebirth. I have heard all of the arguments against such apparently dangerous and conflicting thoughts, but never have I heard of a real reason why the restructure or the implimentation of a more robust organization will not work. I think many fear change, and I feel personally KGB will need to change with the times in order to survive as a viable pvp force.

People cannot continue using the game as a exscuse for what happens to us or what we do or do not do and whether or not we are able to over come obsticles and drive our membership onward to glory and success in the varied games we play. What say you Derid, can we succeed in DFO as things are, or will you elevate the guild through strong policy and a even stronger military?

Where have all of the guilds warriors gone? Is there no concern for the greater good anymore or the glory for the cause? Has gaming become a empty bottomless pit of self endulgence and self preservation? Is this not a unified guild? Will KGB muster any where for one purpose or am I wasting my breath and this guild then becomes what all other guilds have over time, a shadow...

I have plans and a structure in mind if thats what you mean. KGB is a PvP guild, well, many parts of it are. Things tend to be run a bit differently when I am taking an active hand, though its been years now since I have. Some things are yet to be decided, but if you wanna drop in vent sometime today I am always happy to discuss things.

RvR games like wow and warhammer do not lend themselves well to supporting either military structure, formations, or tactics. What we need is the kind of FFA PvP the KGB enjoyed and excelled at in UO. PvP in UO was not only tactical but strategic in many ways as well.

In current MMOs, death is an inconvenience, nothing more. You res and are immediately able to reenter the fight. Gear neither wears out nor needs to be replaced. In UO, not only did you have to find a healer or get a res from a party member, in many cases, your corpse would be dry looted and your horse killed. So not only could you remove the enemy from the field by killing him, over time, you can deplete their capacity to fight. Kill/loot your enemy enough, and unless he wants to go to the sword fight naked and weaponless, he's done until he finds a way to resupply himself. If he has to go on foot because he can't manage to get another horse quickly enough, that is a further disadvantage.

I'm really hoping that DarkFall will allow us to return to that combat model. I'm withholding judgement on the look and feel for Darkfall until I can have a chance to evaluate the game play. Shadowbane in many was was butt ugly, but the PvP and siege capability made up for it's cosmetic crudeness.

Age of Conan is very pretty, but I never enjoyed the PvP environment there. Give me a UO skill based game with an open PvP environment and a siege capability like Shadowbane, and I think that from the point of view of playability, we will have a game where the KGB can shine.

lol your going to make me cry talking about UO with 3D gfx . i have dreamed of this and yet to find it. if DF pulls that off ill never play another game.

as for the pvp. (and this game works) you tell me who i cant kill and all others fall by the side .

bottem line is, if this game pulls off what it claims every dam pvper that plays will come. there will be 1000 + that give it a try from UO free sever hybrd.

thats not that many for a game as total player bace. but 1000 hard core pvpers to lead for and train guilds will give us somthing to test are selfs with.


the question for me is how many of us have pvped as a team over the years on a true pvp sever?

WoW AoC and WAR do not count as a pvp game. DAoC just barly.
can you handle the gankings that will come? every one wonted a PvE on War that dont bode well for are pvpness.

Core servers aren't PVE servers, and their Open RVR servers weren't FFA like they were intended to be. Game was made for Core type play and once you are in the higher Tiers there is a lot less chance to not be flagged for RVR. A game how UO was would be great, I hope what Darkfall promises is what it gives to you. For me Graphics haven't been much of a concern though.

Drak,
There just has not been the proper environment around to facilitate a second golden age. But I think DF offers this. Derid and I have been talking, and when I return, I plan facilitate whatever changes are necessary to make this a success.

More when I return.

I've spoken with many of you concerning many of my personal thoughts and I want you all to know that is all they are, is just my personal thoughts. They don't really mean a hill of beans when measured against the whole of the guild and the venerable members present with much more seniority then I, especially those that have proven themselves more so then I have thus far.

I agree a lot with what Owain said and I know Derid has a good grip on concepts for pvp as I have spoken with him in vent. I've gone around the table and heard from almost all of the more senior guild members on this topic, including Donk, Rallic, Ken, Jet, Elph, Evis, Drek, Derid, Viper, Kal, and various others including what little remains of those friends I have that were or are still here in KGB.

I know KGB has growth and pvp potential, and I mean to be paying close attention to this in darkfall, and hope that I can measure up to it in the end.

Power, Glory, Destiny!

No worries Drakiis , i am sure Derid has everything worked out and ready to go. He has been planning this a very long time. Lets hope KGB can grow and go foward in DF as everyone hopes it can.

The only things I don't like for combat in an MMO that I can think of right off the top of my head right now are:

1. Teleporting/Recalling out of combat or shortly before or after being engaged in combat. (UO) LAME!

2. Running NAKED back to your corpse and dying repeatedly, and Losing MORE XP OVER AND OVER while trying to get there because there's no way to defend yourself. Hours of RL lost that will never be returned in the process. (EQ) LAME!

3. Losing XP upon death, in any way, shape or form. (Mostly EQ, plus other games). LAME!

4. Having to spend TOO MUCH money to repair gear that is already hard to come by. (DAOC, right at release time) LAME! Shadowbane had this PERFECTLY done. Sense of loss, but not as bad as rubbing your cack on a cheese grater.

5. Stealth being an instant invisible ability, rather than occuring from initiating camouflage with environment. (UO,EQ,SB,DAOC,etc etc). LAME! AOC was the first game to get this right.

6. People from any guild that display absolutely shitty FOLLOWERSHIP and think they should be able to LEAD without donating any resources or time. The same people that fail to take orders during battle. If you have a problem with the orders, challenge them in private afterwards. Also: people in charge that fail to; Identify the problem & obstacles, State the Mission to their followers, then ASK FOR IDEAS before charging ahead with their own ideas. Donk actually pulled off good leadership in a positive manner before controversy derailed the effort in AOC. Vipir did a good job with delegation, WHERE it was available. People had a hard time being good followers enough to where they could be trusted to have tasks delegated to them. (Good FOLLOWERSHIP ON EVERY LEVEL - EVERY MMO I have ever played with any guild to date has had this problem with poor followership) LAME!

Military: Believe it or not, many creative forms of tactical combat can be successful in an open-format and skill-based MMO IF IF IF IF IF the followers have good Followership skills as well as the leaders.

Straight from CIO.com:

Quote:

---

The Art of Followership
-
There are probably no classes or seminars offered in followership. It might indeed be an art. Let me share a few of the characteristics of good followers that I have observed during the course of my career.
-
Listening. Good listening may be the primary characteristic of good followers. Many people say, "I hear you," but did they really listen? Listen with your whole brain undistracted by internal dialogues. Listen in order to understand.
-
Focus. Good followers tend to be highly focused on results. They set aside any personal agendas that could disrupt that concentration.
-
Egolessness. Some people shine only when they are in the starring role. But good followers are comfortable playing a supporting role. They have honed the skills they need to lend support from the background. They are less concerned with credit than they are with successful completion of the task.
-
Relevance. Good followers stay close to the working environment because it gives their contributions a sense of reality. This is particularly important for executives acting as followers?like CIOs. Many a great idea has fallen flat because it lacked relevance.
-
Team orientation. The team’s effectiveness is a high priority for good followers. They do what will make the team succeed, sometimes at great personal risk. For them, there is no individual success if the team fails.

---------------

What Leaders Can Learn from Following
Followership skills can enhance your ability as a leader. Being "The Boss" is not necessarily the best approach to all problems. Sometimes it is easy to get so enamored of leadership that you exclude other roles. But situations in which it’s best for you to be a follower are opportunities to be a role model for your organization. Here’s what you can learn by being a follower.
-
Listen. Be open to the ideas of those around you. Some of the best ideas come from within the organization; don’t lose the opportunity to hear them. Be sensitive to the multiple constituencies you represent, and ensure their views are heard.
-
Learn. What challenges and obstacles do you face as a follower? Are there ways to eliminate any of them? It is much easier to recognize these things when you are in the role of follower instead of leader. Take note and plan on fixing the problems later to make life better for those who play this role every day. You can also learn how difficult it is to gracefully follow a direction with which you disagree. This will make you more empathetic in the future when you are leading on a controversial issue.

---

-
Also, something I've noticed that hasn't happened effectively in MMOS: DELEGATION OF AUTHORITY. Instead of one leader tackling many problems, the leader has to have a trustworthy group of secondary leaders with which to delegate tasks effectively. Too many times it has occurred where Heidi is the sole armorer/weaponsmith, or the High Chancellor is doing 3 jobs at once. In effect, the HC should not be doing any technical tasks. They ALL should be delegated somewhere down the chain. The HC must be free and clear to oversee the big picture of what is going on. This CANNOT happen if the HC is too busy wrapped around the minute details of one technical task that could have been passed down.

I mean absolutely NO offense to anyone in the guild when I say this, but when it comes to FACTION leadership, Derid has my utmost confidence of any guild member in KGB to run the show.

It has been years since he has taken an active leadership role (hand-on anyways) in any game KGB has played (Shadowbane military lead before and behind Binbs if memory serves). Any if any of you were around during that time, I believe you would feel the same.

PS - I particularly like crims' #6 bullet point.