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Joined: Dec 2008
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DFO - The Mafia
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DFO - The Mafia
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Quote:

Ranker,
As for you guys declaring on every guild on the server, here is one of our GSS Agents who infiltrated your guild (It was easy and we had more than 1). You can see only 2 Guilds were declared on you:



Here is another news story that includes pictures of you Ranker, using exploits.

Quote:

The Mafia resorts to desperate measures
TM proving to all that it has no honor
An Article by JetStar, KGB GuildMaster

The Mafia taking the war outside of Pacific, KGB responds
Mafia Members resorted to spamming the KGB Guestbook. After spending over an hour cleaning up after this menace, GuildMaster JetStar ordered the rules of wartime conduct suspended. All members of KGB are authorized to fight in any fashion they choose as long as it is not considered a bug or exploit (KGB members are strict anti-cheat/bug).

Wartime Newsreel - Pictures from the Battlefield
KGB scored several victories that we feel prompted the dirty work by Mafia members. Here are some picture of recent kills:

TM GuildMaster Ranker casting paralyze with his Bow in hand
Decide for yourself. In this picture you can clearly see Ranker with his bow in his hand. This member of KGB did not have a chance. You can see the effects of the spell to the lower left. This is obviously the use of some sort of exploit. We would appreciate hearing from any of our readers that can tell us how this is done and if this person is indeed using a bug or exploit.

Victory in the The Britain Cemetery
TM's Blue Healers and Tank Thieves got a taste of their own medicine tonight as KGB vanquished anyone that assisted Mafia members. KGB has been frustrated by TM members going on and off of their GuildStone. They do this to offer their members who are on the stone an unfair advantage. The Mafia not on the stone heal the members that are and the KGB cannot attack these persons because they are "Blue". Tonight despite the "Blue" status, KGB members attacked and killed them anyway. TM members also have thieves that are not on the stone that try to steal from KGB members while in battle.




I am not going to take away from your PvP skills, but in general, you guys employed lameness and used exploits. Blue healers, Going on and off the stone for your advantage, and most of all, taking it outside the game and spamming a public guestbook that we put up for everyone.

Again, it is easy to romanticise the past, as you have come here and tried to do, but I was careful enough to document our victories, and your moral failures for just an instance like this. Some of your guys had PVP skills, but you guys and your tactics underline just why KGB was so successful over the last 11 years. Lameness is not something to be proud of.

Again this is all there, with screen shots and all for your to review just check the KGB News Archives link from the Entrance Page.




1) Thank you for proving my points. Only two guilds had the balls to remain declared against us at that point in time. KGB & PoA. Every single other guild folded and undeclared. Every day we'd declare on whatever new guild was created. We got bored with the game after KGB undeclared and PoA cried uncle and undeclared.

2) I never exploited. You do realize that most of us had macros to spam to "hide" our cast messages. Soon after that, many others on the server started copying our technique of 'masking' our casting incantations. Your screen shot really proves nothing. It did not document whether someone not on the screen had cast paralyze nor attributes for the delay in the message remaining on screen while I macroed my bow into my hand. I may have been ruthless to the point of res killing, stealing keys, etc, but everything was done within intended game mechanics. I was renown dueler during my time. Logic dictates it'd be incongruous to use an exploit for a random nobody in a random encounter.

2) You had two people that was on our stone. We turned one of them. It didn't take long to figure out who the first GSS agent was. A simple ICQ message to rally at different locations and seeing where KGB would assemble made it pretty obvious. Anyhow, we turned your first agent and he remained a double agent. You guys never noticed that many of your returned keys through your agent had duplicates made. I was surprised you never caught on because I'd have been mighty suspicious if an agent of mine had a 100% return rate on lost keys in battle. You guys were quite resourceful in coming up with your spy squad. However, you did underestimate my very own resourcefulness.

3) Look upon your "victories" Jetstar. Most of your victories involved surviving one of our attacks or rolling into an empty location and proclaiming you won. You were very well aware of my own website that I kept that documented how often we routed your forces. Propaganda was always one of your strongest weapons. In conjunction with your numerical advantage with your insane recruiting drives, you did quite well in not being totally dominated. KGB won a number of engagements, but we won the majority. I find it funny that only you deny this when many of your old officers and even merged guilds admitted otherwise. I ran into many old KGB members in games since including DAoC, Eve, etc.

Anyhow, this is just turning into a 'my penis is bigger than your penis' discussion and we all know how fun those are.

I'd like to reiterate how excited I am to find you guys are still around. I look forward to playing DFO against you guys so we can settle this penis size contest once and for all

Ranker

Joined: Jun 2006
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KGB Supreme Knight
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I'll definitely give it a go.

Still looking for that good old blood rush from the UO - Pac days of old. Until that time I'll be tinkering with Eve, Warhammer, CS & BF2/2142.

/waves to Ranker. Always good to know there will be guaranteed hostilities to keep things fun.


- Wildcard / Tiernan
Joined: May 2008
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Band 5
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WTF happened to the Pluggers? Never heard of this UO Mafia crew. Seems like a nice rivalry to revive however. Hope you and yours fight more competently than you debate Ranker!


Joined: Aug 2006
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KGB Senator
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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Hey Vuldan, can you remind me who undeclared war please?




Sure, I'll even be fair about it..TM were great opponents, and when it was clear they could no longer hold the field or even contribute, victory was declared. Questions? See the archives, but please, please do not try and convince anyone that TM won. Some battles, yes, but not the shooting match. DFO will surely provide ample opportunity to revisit this rivalry..what will be the new opportunity? DFO will be unique even more than UO..so I am sure we will see.




Hold the field? Contribute? We could run PoA by ourselves off the table but failed to succeed against KGB? You must be joking.

The only thing KGB had was numbers. I still remember fondly taking on a large contingent of KGB members by myself and walking away victoriously. We were better prepared and skilled after having PvP'ed together for much longer than most of your members.

If anything, I give KGB credit for numbers they were able to recruit and sustain. You might not have had the best PvP quality, but you used your numbers well. But frankly, the majority of your members weren't even 7x GM when I could say that our members were 6x GM's at the very least.
You did have some skilled PvP'ers with whom I kept in touch with even after the UO years.

KGB did well WHEN they were able to muster their superior numbers. You guys were an army. You realized your strength was in numbers and used it well.

However, when caught in impromptu battles, TM always came out victorious when the numbers were even or even when we were slightly outnumbered. Please see the underlying logic: when you had superior numbers, we avoided confrontation because there was simply no point. If you consider holding certain areas only at certain times of the day victory, then by all means. But whenever there was actual fighting, we slew far more KGB than we lost. I remember talking to Hard Cash about how he had to yell at his own members to never leave town unless in packs of at least 6 to avoid being taken down us.

I don't see how anyone could say "we undeclared therefore we won". I find the logic amusing.




Spoken like a true defense attorney. The facts are altered to fit the needs of the arguement. As to my point, no, I was not and am not joking. It is only amusing to see the traditional mentality which went behind almost every move and post from those good old times by members of every guild who could not defeat KGB on a regular basis. You certainly prove that point very well. Your continued and assinine arguement that you had more 7xGM's than KGB is almost to funny to even contemplate. And if you indeed did find yourself able to survive an onslaught by more than a reasonable number of KGB on the field, then you must have in deed been guilty of the exploit use you were accussed of so long ago.

It is good to see you around and I hope to see you on the field in DFO. Your continued tirade is almost enough for me to file a returning vet app just to be sure there is no chance we might miss one another in DFO. If you have proof of your claims, beyond fantasizing, then please, bring it out. I have only to look to the KGB archives to have plenty of hard solid evidence to prove my points. You know this.

Any further arguement would only serve to solidify what I already know, which is that TM was a great PvP guild, fun to war and yet, you could not continue the fight. You know it and we know it and any further arguement to the contrary is moot. We can continue to banter it if you wish. Otherwise, good to see you around and look forward to DFO.


[Linked Image from nodiatis.com]
Joined: Dec 2008
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DFO - The Mafia
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DFO - The Mafia
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 22
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Hey Vuldan, can you remind me who undeclared war please?




Sure, I'll even be fair about it..TM were great opponents, and when it was clear they could no longer hold the field or even contribute, victory was declared. Questions? See the archives, but please, please do not try and convince anyone that TM won. Some battles, yes, but not the shooting match. DFO will surely provide ample opportunity to revisit this rivalry..what will be the new opportunity? DFO will be unique even more than UO..so I am sure we will see.




Hold the field? Contribute? We could run PoA by ourselves off the table but failed to succeed against KGB? You must be joking.

The only thing KGB had was numbers. I still remember fondly taking on a large contingent of KGB members by myself and walking away victoriously. We were better prepared and skilled after having PvP'ed together for much longer than most of your members.

If anything, I give KGB credit for numbers they were able to recruit and sustain. You might not have had the best PvP quality, but you used your numbers well. But frankly, the majority of your members weren't even 7x GM when I could say that our members were 6x GM's at the very least.
You did have some skilled PvP'ers with whom I kept in touch with even after the UO years.

KGB did well WHEN they were able to muster their superior numbers. You guys were an army. You realized your strength was in numbers and used it well.

However, when caught in impromptu battles, TM always came out victorious when the numbers were even or even when we were slightly outnumbered. Please see the underlying logic: when you had superior numbers, we avoided confrontation because there was simply no point. If you consider holding certain areas only at certain times of the day victory, then by all means. But whenever there was actual fighting, we slew far more KGB than we lost. I remember talking to Hard Cash about how he had to yell at his own members to never leave town unless in packs of at least 6 to avoid being taken down us.

I don't see how anyone could say "we undeclared therefore we won". I find the logic amusing.




Spoken like a true defense attorney. The facts are altered to fit the needs of the arguement. As to my point, no, I was not and am not joking. It is only amusing to see the traditional mentality which went behind almost every move and post from those good old times by members of every guild who could not defeat KGB on a regular basis. You certainly prove that point very well. Your continued and assinine arguement that you had more 7xGM's than KGB is almost to funny to even contemplate. And if you indeed did find yourself able to survive an onslaught by more than a reasonable number of KGB on the field, then you must have in deed been guilty of the exploit use you were accussed of so long ago.

It is good to see you around and I hope to see you on the field in DFO. Your continued tirade is almost enough for me to file a returning vet app just to be sure there is no chance we might miss one another in DFO. If you have proof of your claims, beyond fantasizing, then please, bring it out. I have only to look to the KGB archives to have plenty of hard solid evidence to prove my points. You know this.

Any further arguement would only serve to solidify what I already know, which is that TM was a great PvP guild, fun to war and yet, you could not continue the fight. You know it and we know it and any further arguement to the contrary is moot. We can continue to banter it if you wish. Otherwise, good to see you around and look forward to DFO.




Ah yes, because your archives present the only engagements that ever occurred between Mafia and KGB correct? If so that must have been a boring war between us if there were only 15 clashes during our 2 year long war with one another. You can claim that your archives speak the gospel truth. It's like the Muslims claiming that the Koran is the actually the accurate word of God. Heck the KGB archives might as well have the "fair and balanced" reporting of Fox News. I find it amusing that KGB claims to have "won" when every other guild that warred us folded. Heck even SoV which merged into your guild couldn't handle our heat. But I guess its always more convenient to circle jerk upon the idea that KGB was the definitive PvP guild on Pac right? lol

Alas, Mafia's first website is no longer up nor did I have the foresight to believe that KGB would claim victory or else I'd still keep it up with all of our documented kills and victories.

But hey, I guess its always easier to presume you're the best guild and incapable of losing in PvP right? I relish the chance to see our two guilds meet again in DFO.

PS. It always speaks of class when you resort to personal attacks. Alas, I'm not a defense attorney as criminal law doesn't stimulate me at all nor does it generate the income required to sustain the type of lifestyle I enjoy living. I would have figured that KGB was classy enough to avoid the personal attacks even when we forum joust out of nostalgia for our old fun rivalry.

Quote:

I'll definitely give it a go.

Still looking for that good old blood rush from the UO - Pac days of old. Until that time I'll be tinkering with Eve, Warhammer, CS & BF2/2142.

/waves to Ranker. Always good to know there will be guaranteed hostilities to keep things fun.




Hey Wildcard! Good to see you around. What corp are you with in Eve?

Anyhow a /wave back to what I considered to be KGB's best dueler/pvper from our old UO days =)

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,587
Chief Justice
KGB Supreme Court
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Chief Justice
KGB Supreme Court
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,587

I am mostly staying out of this thread as I had my fun in the previous one, but two quick points:

1) Vuldan is not and has not been KGB for many many years. His guild, CxC has been hostile toward KGB ever since they split. I am not saying I disagree with what he says here, or agree - just pointing out that CxC members do not speak for KGB.

2) Masking your casting wasnt something you invented that late in UO... in fact someone called Palus showed me the rudiments of it as far back as Febuary and I doubt she invented it. Amongst the circles of hardcore pvpers it was common knowledge for approx 8 months prior to the time period you describe.

Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 112
Former KGB Member
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Former KGB Member
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 112
I was really trying to be a smart ass, but I think I may have been in basic training before the TM war ended, as I don't remember a lot of stuff from that time.

Vuldan, come back and join us! I don't know what the specifics were involving your exit, but they couldn't have been much worse than mine. Come... revisit the past with us!

Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,070
Likes: 6
KGB Senator
KGB Supreme Knight
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Online
KGB Senator
KGB Supreme Knight
***
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,070
Likes: 6
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Hey Vuldan, can you remind me who undeclared war please?




Sure, I'll even be fair about it..TM were great opponents, and when it was clear they could no longer hold the field or even contribute, victory was declared. Questions? See the archives, but please, please do not try and convince anyone that TM won. Some battles, yes, but not the shooting match. DFO will surely provide ample opportunity to revisit this rivalry..what will be the new opportunity? DFO will be unique even more than UO..so I am sure we will see.




Hold the field? Contribute? We could run PoA by ourselves off the table but failed to succeed against KGB? You must be joking.

The only thing KGB had was numbers. I still remember fondly taking on a large contingent of KGB members by myself and walking away victoriously. We were better prepared and skilled after having PvP'ed together for much longer than most of your members.

If anything, I give KGB credit for numbers they were able to recruit and sustain. You might not have had the best PvP quality, but you used your numbers well. But frankly, the majority of your members weren't even 7x GM when I could say that our members were 6x GM's at the very least.
You did have some skilled PvP'ers with whom I kept in touch with even after the UO years.

KGB did well WHEN they were able to muster their superior numbers. You guys were an army. You realized your strength was in numbers and used it well.

However, when caught in impromptu battles, TM always came out victorious when the numbers were even or even when we were slightly outnumbered. Please see the underlying logic: when you had superior numbers, we avoided confrontation because there was simply no point. If you consider holding certain areas only at certain times of the day victory, then by all means. But whenever there was actual fighting, we slew far more KGB than we lost. I remember talking to Hard Cash about how he had to yell at his own members to never leave town unless in packs of at least 6 to avoid being taken down us.

I don't see how anyone could say "we undeclared therefore we won". I find the logic amusing.




Spoken like a true defense attorney. The facts are altered to fit the needs of the arguement. As to my point, no, I was not and am not joking. It is only amusing to see the traditional mentality which went behind almost every move and post from those good old times by members of every guild who could not defeat KGB on a regular basis. You certainly prove that point very well. Your continued and assinine arguement that you had more 7xGM's than KGB is almost to funny to even contemplate. And if you indeed did find yourself able to survive an onslaught by more than a reasonable number of KGB on the field, then you must have in deed been guilty of the exploit use you were accussed of so long ago.

It is good to see you around and I hope to see you on the field in DFO. Your continued tirade is almost enough for me to file a returning vet app just to be sure there is no chance we might miss one another in DFO. If you have proof of your claims, beyond fantasizing, then please, bring it out. I have only to look to the KGB archives to have plenty of hard solid evidence to prove my points. You know this.

Any further arguement would only serve to solidify what I already know, which is that TM was a great PvP guild, fun to war and yet, you could not continue the fight. You know it and we know it and any further arguement to the contrary is moot. We can continue to banter it if you wish. Otherwise, good to see you around and look forward to DFO.




Ah yes, because your archives present the only engagements that ever occurred between Mafia and KGB correct? If so that must have been a boring war between us if there were only 15 clashes during our 2 year long war with one another. You can claim that your archives speak the gospel truth. It's like the Muslims claiming that the Koran is the actually the accurate word of God. Heck the KGB archives might as well have the "fair and balanced" reporting of Fox News. I find it amusing that KGB claims to have "won" when every other guild that warred us folded. Heck even SoV which merged into your guild couldn't handle our heat. But I guess its always more convenient to circle jerk upon the idea that KGB was the definitive PvP guild on Pac right? lol

Alas, Mafia's first website is no longer up nor did I have the foresight to believe that KGB would claim victory or else I'd still keep it up with all of our documented kills and victories.

But hey, I guess its always easier to presume you're the best guild and incapable of losing in PvP right? I relish the chance to see our two guilds meet again in DFO.

PS. It always speaks of class when you resort to personal attacks. Alas, I'm not a defense attorney as criminal law doesn't stimulate me at all nor does it generate the income required to sustain the type of lifestyle I enjoy living. I would have figured that KGB was classy enough to avoid the personal attacks even when we forum joust out of nostalgia for our old fun rivalry.

Quote:

I'll definitely give it a go.

Still looking for that good old blood rush from the UO - Pac days of old. Until that time I'll be tinkering with Eve, Warhammer, CS & BF2/2142.

/waves to Ranker. Always good to know there will be guaranteed hostilities to keep things fun.




Hey Wildcard! Good to see you around. What corp are you with in Eve?

Anyhow a /wave back to what I considered to be KGB's best dueler/pvper from our old UO days =)




It was not meant personal bro, had no clue what type of law you practiced. As a lawyer, you are most aware that words have power beyond what most people think. Trust me, personal would have been very recognizable as such, honest. Remember, this is a message board so there is no way to give it emotion unless you choose the emotion.

As Derid says, I do not speak for KGB. I will defend the KGB of old that I was a part of, and still hold strong feelings for many of KGB members. Beyond which, of course, the memories are always going to be different depending on what side of the line you are on.

I look forward to DFO and the rivalries that will exist there, and the old TM war days were some of my most fond memories in my early career at KGB. Lots of good times, and with rare exception, very little hold over animosity. As you eloquently pointed out, the points of view are unique to the sides. I still say your facts are outragously exagerated, but that is my perspective, not yours. Wish you the best Rank, and look forward to seeing all of you in DFO.


[Linked Image from nodiatis.com]
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 22
R
DFO - The Mafia
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DFO - The Mafia
R
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 22
Quote:


I am mostly staying out of this thread as I had my fun in the previous one, but two quick points:

1) Vuldan is not and has not been KGB for many many years. His guild, CxC has been hostile toward KGB ever since they split. I am not saying I disagree with what he says here, or agree - just pointing out that CxC members do not speak for KGB.





Ahh, thank you for clearing that up.

Quote:


2) Masking your casting wasnt something you invented that late in UO... in fact someone called Palus showed me the rudiments of it as far back as Febuary and I doubt she invented it. Amongst the circles of hardcore pvpers it was common knowledge for approx 8 months prior to the time period you describe.




Actually it was something that was created in late 97 by a bunch of us PK's while we were dueling with each other. This included myself, Francine Booth, Xan, Yoda, etc.

I never stated that the technique was created at that time point that screenshot was taken. There were many variations that were done afterwards. We created the empty text chant by creating key binds that spammed empty "white" space. After OSI eliminated that, some unknown modified it to chat various incantations to mask the spell being cast.

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 22
R
DFO - The Mafia
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DFO - The Mafia
R
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 22
Quote:


It was not meant personal bro, had no clue what type of law you practiced. As a lawyer, you are most aware that words have power beyond what most people think. Trust me, personal would have been very recognizable as such, honest. Remember, this is a message board so there is no way to give it emotion unless you choose the emotion.




If you didn't mean anything by it, then no harm done. I don't mind lawyer jokes when its done in a humorous manner. On the face of your argument, it seemed as if you attempted to be demeaning. But as you explained yourself, no harm no foul.

Quote:


As Derid says, I do not speak for KGB. I will defend the KGB of old that I was a part of, and still hold strong feelings for many of KGB members. Beyond which, of course, the memories are always going to be different depending on what side of the line you are on.




I understand this fully as well. =)

Quote:


I look forward to DFO and the rivalries that will exist there, and the old TM war days were some of my most fond memories in my early career at KGB. Lots of good times, and with rare exception, very little hold over animosity. As you eloquently pointed out, the points of view are unique to the sides. I still say your facts are outragously exagerated, but that is my perspective, not yours. Wish you the best Rank, and look forward to seeing all of you in DFO.




LOL. Well, we in Mafia always said that Jetstar's propaganda could have changed the course of real history if he was ever employed in such fashion. But in any case, don't assume that most of Mafia doesn't think fondly of KGB in the rivalry sense. UO during that time period and our wars together are probably my fondest memories of gaming. To this day, all of us in TM are still looking for that very same first "high" of UO. Every game since has been a disappointment in some form or another. I really hope DFO pans out for us all.

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