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Sini #141400 08/19/17 09:46 AM
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Another example, I oppose removal of confederate statues. I see this as revisionism. History happened, it was much more complex than simply slavery vs. abolitionist, attempting to white wash it is not only pointless, it is dangerous, as it becomes easier to repeat mistakes that lead to a civil war. Plus, removing monuments will do absolutely nothing to fight today's racism.

Does this view makes me a Nazi/Racist fellow traveler in your view?


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Sini #141405 08/20/17 07:43 AM
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No it does not

Sini #141417 08/22/17 07:20 PM
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They are monuments to racism, not reminders of history. They were mostly erected during Jim Crow and the Civil Rights eras. The impacts of the history of slavery and white nationalism belong in contextualized museums, not outdoor public monuments. That is the line between sympathizer and historian.


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rhaikh #141419 08/23/17 06:04 AM
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Originally Posted by rhaikh
They are monuments to racism, not reminders of history. They were mostly erected during Jim Crow and the Civil Rights eras. The impacts of the history of slavery and white nationalism belong in contextualized museums, not outdoor public monuments. That is the line between sympathizer and historian.


^

rhaikh #141425 08/24/17 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by rhaikh
They are monuments to racism, not reminders of history. They were mostly erected during Jim Crow and the Civil Rights eras. The impacts of the history of slavery and white nationalism belong in contextualized museums, not outdoor public monuments. That is the line between sympathizer and historian.

Welcome to the human race, our whole history is racism, violence, conquest and so on. Nobody is innocent. Today we live in uniquely peaceful times by historical standards, but you can't wipe everything that came before. Trying to do that is stupid and dangerous, because lack of understand of what happened makes it more likely to repeat itself. The best way to revive Jim Crow is to pretend it never happened.


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Sini #141429 08/24/17 09:59 PM
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You're intentionally avoiding my point, as if I never made one. I'm saying insisting we keep monuments to racism on government lands because that is the only way we can learn from history is de facto sympathetic to the agenda of the racists who put them there in the first place. https://twitter.com/libshipwreck/status/898214705403236355


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Sini #141431 08/25/17 04:35 AM
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I am not avoiding your point, I was giving you benefit of the doubt and interpreted your words in a charitable way.

You *assert* that these are monuments to racism and poison the well by insisting that there is no other possible reason these exist but to celebrate racism. Since you have done this twice, and it is core of your argument, I want you to demonstrate that these monuments: a) are there to celebrate characters uniquely racist by standards of their own time and/or b) used today to promote racism and removing them will lead to direct reduction in racism.

Again, we are not talking about tearing down statues of robed grand wizard or statue of a burning cross, we are talking about tearing down statues of historical figures.

List of statues include Robert E. Lee, who was key figure in reconstruction and who supported his wife in freeing and educating slaves.


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rhaikh #141432 08/25/17 04:51 AM
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Let me attempt to demonstrate historical context with a hypothetical. In 200 years humanity develops technology to vat grow meat-like substance and phases out livestock. As a result, killing animals for food and leather becomes highly unacceptable practice. Anti animal cruelty protesters decide to tear down statues of Obama everywhere because he ate meat and wore leather shoes. Would you consider this appropriate, considering that today eating meat isn't unusual?


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Sini #141435 08/25/17 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Sini
Originally Posted by rhaikh
They are monuments to racism, not reminders of history. They were mostly erected during Jim Crow and the Civil Rights eras. The impacts of the history of slavery and white nationalism belong in contextualized museums, not outdoor public monuments. That is the line between sympathizer and historian.

Welcome to the human race, our whole history is racism, violence, conquest and so on. Nobody is innocent. Today we live in uniquely peaceful times by historical standards, but you can't wipe everything that came before. Trying to do that is stupid and dangerous, because lack of understand of what happened makes it more likely to repeat itself. The best way to revive Jim Crow is to pretend it never happened.

This is something we can agree on. When you make things like this out of sight and out of mind people seem to forget. This isn't something new it's everyday in the life of mankind. I do not agree with any kind of White Supremacy or Supremacy of any type. As you stated we do not get out of the racial tensions by pretending it never happened.

rhaikh #141436 08/25/17 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by rhaikh
They are monuments to racism, not reminders of history. They were mostly erected during Jim Crow and the Civil Rights eras. The impacts of the history of slavery and white nationalism belong in contextualized museums, not outdoor public monuments. That is the line between sympathizer and historian.

What about Grant... he owned slaves are we to take down statues of him and erase him from the books of being President?

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