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#140815 06/29/17 11:35 AM
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Talk amongst yourselves.


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Who cares what healthcare Bernie wants? Aren't Bernie's healthcare requirements Bernie's responsibility?

Last edited by Owain; 06/29/17 06:31 PM.

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Does the Canadian government exercise that level of control in their healthcare system? I'm asking out of pure ignorance. TBH I didn't even know that the UK's healthcare was set up such.

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Originally Posted by Kaotic
Talk amongst yourselves.

Hysterical bullshit article. This kid would be as dead in US, only 1.6 mil later. While you found one case that could be made look bad, there is a 20 million cases that about to start looking really bad in US.

Access to Healthcare is a fundamental human right. It should be universal. This also by necessity means that limited resources are distributed based on some rational criteria, not who can pay most. People will still die, just not as much, but deaths won't be by people that could be reasonably helped, but had no insurance.


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Originally Posted by Brutal
Does the Canadian government exercise that level of control in their healthcare system? I'm asking out of pure ignorance. TBH I didn't even know that the UK's healthcare was set up such.


Both rich Brits and rich Canadians can travel to US for medical treatments all they want. Often they get much better deal than US citizens due to being able to negotiate with providers and pay cash.


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Originally Posted by Sini
[
Access to Healthcare is a fundamental human right.


I'm still curious how you came to that assertion.

There's a big difference between an actual right, and something you think everyone should have, or even something that would be beneficial for everyone to have.


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Originally Posted by Derid
Originally Posted by Sini

Access to Healthcare is a fundamental human right.

I'm still curious how you came to that assertion.


Maslow's hierarchy of needs. How could you have democratic egalitarian society when such fundamental need is not satisfied? You are potentially putting basic survival against higher logic and altruism and counting on later to win sufficiently big to have rational and fiscally responsible government.

For example, seniors would vote for expanding medicare coverage over other convictions. They don't care about costs - they will be long since dead when debt crushes the economy. Hence "Keep government hands off my medicare" protesters. As a result you have pandering or no-integrity politicians getting elected.


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Isn't Bern Dog under FBI investigation? Boy that's what I want to do trust and asshole under investigation that got fucked over by Hildawg and the Democratic party. Only to buy a third house and rumors of having a very expensive car. Ol' Bern dog got bought... he's just an old shit bag socialist.

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A quick rule of thumb regarding rights. If it's something you want someone else to pay for, it's not a right.

Last edited by Owain; 07/05/17 09:29 PM.

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Originally Posted by Sini
Originally Posted by Derid
Originally Posted by Sini

Access to Healthcare is a fundamental human right.

I'm still curious how you came to that assertion.


Maslow's hierarchy of needs. How could you have democratic egalitarian society when such fundamental need is not satisfied? You are potentially putting basic survival against higher logic and altruism and counting on later to win sufficiently big to have rational and fiscally responsible government.

For example, seniors would vote for expanding medicare coverage over other convictions. They don't care about costs - they will be long since dead when debt crushes the economy. Hence "Keep government hands off my medicare" protesters. As a result you have pandering or no-integrity politicians getting elected.


I see what you are saying, but I still think calling it a right is a bridge too far. The difference might seem minor to you, but I think it is extremely important. Safeguarding actual rights justifies an entirely different magnitude of morally justifiable means, for starters. Rights also aren't subject to vagaries of circumstance, such as availability of resources - nor can a true right compel others to particular actions, they are negative in nature. If you accept that anything you personally feel desirable can arbitrarily be called a right, you open the door for anyone to do the same. That is an extremely dangerous line of thinking, that is antithetical to any free society - and in fact is best represented by your own example of people who want their medicare untouched despite the cost.

It would be better, and much safer to articulate a principle that it is good policy for wealthy societies to set a floor on the standard of living beneath which no citizen need descend. You can achieve similar goals, in a manner that doesn't directly draw from a line of thinking that justifies any tyranny in service to a supposed "good"

tldr; Having safety nets and social services does not necessarily preclude nor induce tyranny or other forms of social deterioration, while arbitrarily embracing things as human rights simply because you find them desirable or a utilitarian argument could be made on its behalf, will.


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