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Sini #140259 04/15/17 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Sini
Owain, this is stretch too far to count even as a face-saving dodge. Considering that Trump accusations were very specific - this was supposed to be Watergate-style monitoring, not legal DOJ investigation of someone thrice-removed.

The only thing Trump said was that he was bring wire tapped. He didn't elaborate on the details, but the administration had already attempted to obtain a warrant to conduct surveillance on Trump and they were denied, so they had the warrant issued on an aide instead.

If at first you don't succeed...

Last edited by Owain; 04/15/17 07:50 PM.

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Sini #140260 04/15/17 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Sini
What the heck is going in California? Did crazed left forgot what democratic political process supposed to mean? That you can't just violently attack as a form of disagreement?

To what are you referring?


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Owain #140261 04/15/17 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Owain

The only thing Trump said...


realdonaldtrump (March 4, 2017). "Terrible! Just found out that Obama had my "wires tapped" in Trump Tower just before the victory. Nothing found. This is McCarthyism!"
realdonaldtrump (March 4, 2017). "Is it legal for a sitting President to be "wire tapping" a race for president prior to an election? Turned down by court earlier. A NEW LOW!"
realdonaldtrump (March 4, 2017). "I'd bet a good lawyer could make a great case out of the fact that President Obama was tapping my phones in October, just prior to Election!"
realdonaldtrump (March 4, 2017). "How low has President Obama gone to tapp my phones during the very sacred election process. This is Nixon/Watergate. Bad (or sick) guy!""

I think Trump was very clear - it was "President Obama" and "my phones". DoJ legally tapping of aide does not fit this narrative at all.


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Sini #140265 04/15/17 08:40 PM
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And when the FISA court turned down the warrant request for Trump himself, what did they do? They get warrants to tap his aides and associates, and Trumps conversations with them are still being monitered.

Either way, Trump's conversations were still being subject to surrveilance before, during, and after the election, which one might expect in some banana republic, but before Obama, not in the United States.

Maybe this was the change Obama promised, to make the U.S. a surveillance state.

Last edited by Owain; 04/15/17 08:41 PM.

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Owain #140267 04/16/17 05:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Owain
And when the FISA court turned down the warrant request for Trump himself, what did they do? They get warrants to tap his aides and associates, and Trumps conversations with them are still being monitered.

Either way, Trump's conversations were still being subject to surrveilance before, during, and after the election, which one might expect in some banana republic, but before Obama, not in the United States.

Maybe this was the change Obama promised, to make the U.S. a surveillance state.


You are inconsistent even within your own descriptions. In this post you act as if Obama actually ordered wiretapping of Trump. What you present as evidence is court-approved DOJ investigation into Trump aide.

I hope you understand that Watergate lead to impeachment not because wiretapping, but because it was done illegally?

Alternatively, you should be arguing that everyone working on the presidential campaign should get immunity from criminal prosecution. However, presently not even legislative immunity goes that far. That is, elected officials don't presently enjoy a degree of immunity that you suggest this aide should have.


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Sini #140268 04/16/17 06:27 AM
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If you misrepresent a case to the FISA court for a warrant for surveillance for national security purposes when you are actually conducting surviellance for political puposes, that is a felony offense.

I hope that the investigation continues, and that felony indictments will be handed down, and those responsible will be prosecuted, convicted, sentenced, and imprisoned.

If that includes Barrack Obama, then so be it.

Last edited by Owain; 04/16/17 06:46 AM.

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Sini #140269 04/16/17 06:39 AM
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This is a bit of a long read, but it sums up what is known to date, and makes a good case for the suggestion that the Obama administration feloniously misused the FISA courts and intelligence assets to conduct political surviellance on the Trump campaign.


http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2017/04/in_her_majestys_disservice.html


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Owain #140272 04/16/17 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Owain
This is a bit of a long read, but it sums up what is known to date, and makes a good case for the suggestion that the Obama administration feloniously misused the FISA courts and intelligence assets to conduct political surviellance on the Trump campaign.


http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2017/04/in_her_majestys_disservice.html



This blog is credible?

Sini #140273 04/16/17 09:36 AM
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Is your criticism a logical fallacy in the form of an ad hominem attack?

Why yes. It is.

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Sini #140274 04/16/17 10:24 AM
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How is that an ad hominem? I'm questioning the validity of your source. A blog.

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