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Sini #139612 01/13/17 09:17 PM
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Really? Damn. It isn't that bad. When the US does go down, it will take most of the rest of the world with it anyhow.


For who could be free when every other man's humour might domineer over him? - John Locke (2nd Treatise, sect 57)
Sini #139615 01/14/17 08:48 PM
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It will be slow, then all the sudden. Meanwhile it will keep getting more illiberal for a larger and larger % of population. Used to be it was just poor blacks and poor hispanics, now it is also poor whites and bigger chunk of black and hispanic population. The trend is unmistakable and only matter of time until it would have reached my socioeconomic status.

I lived through the fall of USSR, I see a lot of parallels now. 90s were really awful time to live in post-soviet republics, but "nobody died" and the world didn't end. Likewise with US, unless somebody presses the red button on the way out.


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Derid #139617 01/14/17 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted By: Derid
Really? Damn. It isn't that bad. When the US does go down, it will take most of the rest of the world with it anyhow.


As far as stages of grief, you got to bargaining.


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Sini #139621 01/14/17 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted By: Sini
Originally Posted By: Derid
Really? Damn. It isn't that bad. When the US does go down, it will take most of the rest of the world with it anyhow.


As far as stages of grief, you got to bargaining.


Nah, more like I'm mostly over it. I've been predicting this path for a long, long time. So has the Deep State, you don't spend hundreds of billions on internal security because you're afraid of a few cavemen in turbans.

Nonetheless, I have seen people thinking it was "the end" for quite a while, and be mostly wrong. I'm thinking Trump came soon enough that there are still enough civic "antibodies" left to fight the infection. We might even be graced with some temporary immunity.

Time will tell. Maybe the fever that has gripped both sides of the spectrum will break.

I disagree with you on one major thing though, from the other thread: details matter. Letting the details slide leaves them in the hands of others, who are able to work them for their own benefit.

This is fundamentally why we, the citizens, always lose. Populism, nor even popular democracy, are capable of detailed thinking. At least not in the age of social media.


For who could be free when every other man's humour might domineer over him? - John Locke (2nd Treatise, sect 57)
Sini #139622 01/15/17 06:13 AM
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The chief benefit of not having died for a reasonably long period of time is that generally, you have seen it all before. These are neither the best of times, nor are the the worst of times. They are just the times we have at the moment.

I think it is more than a bit narcissistic for anyone to think these times are in any way special just because they happen to live in these times.


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Owain #139624 01/15/17 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted By: Owain
The chief benefit of not having died for a reasonably long period of time is that generally, you have seen it all before. These are neither the best of times, nor are the the worst of times. They are just the times we have at the moment.

I think it is more than a bit narcissistic for anyone to think these times are in any way special just because they happen to live in these times.


If the times are special, it is because humans evolved physically and socially in a completely different information environment. We, as a species, don't seem suited to living in a digital age, inside a massive cloud of noise, where we naturally seem to take refuge in thick social bubbles.

Plus it isn't about being special in any regard, history runs according to a few repeated patterns and cycles. It isn't that nothing similar has occurred before, but rather identifying our current pattern, and where in the cycle we sit. (and what might be different this time, because something always is a bit different) This is of course made more difficult by the new information and social environment. But still, the more things change, the more they stay the same. Just, at a faster pace, and larger scale.

Writers write, fighters fight, and pol nerds argue with other pol nerds about anything and everything in whatever venue is made available. Those three things are more or less eternally human.


For who could be free when every other man's humour might domineer over him? - John Locke (2nd Treatise, sect 57)
Sini #139940 03/06/17 04:21 PM
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Trump recently made allegations that Obama administration wiretapped his campaign, Watergate-style. If this is true, then Obama has a lot to answer for and unlikely to get pardon. If it isn't true, then Trump has a lot to answer for, and impeachment isn't unreasonable.

You don't throw allegations like that lightly.


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Sini #139942 03/06/17 06:25 PM
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Twitter posts hardly rise to the level of crimes that justify impeachment.

Is there no straw too frail for the left to try to grasp?


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Owain #139943 03/06/17 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Owain
Twitter posts hardly rise to the level of crimes that justify impeachment.

Is there no straw too frail for the left to try to grasp?


Certainly not but they sure are amusing.

http://imgur.com/a/3zyCr

Owain #139944 03/07/17 06:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Owain
Twitter posts hardly rise to the level of crimes that justify impeachment.


Twitter is another form of public speech. There is no difference between twitting these accusations or holding a press conference.

False speech must have consequences. Trump advocated as much during his campaigning.

Quote
Is there no straw too frail for the left to try to grasp?


So you are advocating for accountability-free presidency? Do you understand that if Trump isn't held to answer, no POTUS ever again will be bound to tell truth? You can cynically point that all politicians brake promises, but promises is not the same thing as lying about factual events.

For example, 2020 some Democratic populist gets elected on the wave of "anyone but Trump". Then they falsely declare that GOP was putting LBGT people into concentration camps, then proceed to drive policy from that point (anti-hate speech laws, reconciliation and compensation and so on... basically raining taxpayers money on anything LBGT and making it illegal to speak out against this). Would you want to live in such US? If not, hold Trump accountable.


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