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Kaotic #139683 01/27/17 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted By: Kaotic
Originally Posted By: Goriom
No, because something can both be biased and still be technically factual, i.e most of what Fox News puts out. So they are not lying to their viewers but they are not presenting them with all the information. This is why you should be getting your news from multiple sources.

Fake news, unless we don't really care what the definition of words are nowadays, is just plain fake.


How would you spin this one against this one?

Same story, two totally different spins. When does bias become an outright lie?


The Independent story is poorly written with contradictory statements within the article. I even see some unsubstantiated claims in here that should never have been allowed to pass edit. This kind of goes beyond bias but that is what you get when you use a tabloid rag in its death throes to try and prove a point.

I guess this illustrates a bigger issue though. What is a reputable site and what isn't. People complain about the mainstream media but the Independent, Buzz Feed, etc is not apart of that. Just anyone nowadays can create a website to report news. Hence why we have people in Macedonia turning out completely fabricated stories and making a living off of doing that.

The CNN article is written a lot better.

It seems like the great bias divide in this issue is if they were fired or resigned. The truth seems to be somewhere in the middle. The senior staff handed in letters of resignation, hence they quit, but from what I have gathered it was more of a forced resignation anyway.


Maybe I need to clarify my position here. The Mainstream Media has an issue of bias not "fake news". CNN is not fake news lol

When we make mistakes and it does happen, we issue retractions. The offenders, depending on the severity can be placed on leave or outright fired. CBS forced Lara Logan and her producer to take a leave of absence and issued an apology about their faulty Benghazi reporting on 60 Minutes.



Last edited by Goriom; 01/27/17 12:59 PM.
Kaotic #139698 01/29/17 04:53 PM
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So then the bigger question is, if you're not a media wonk, which most people are not, how do you tell the difference? Especially now, when most people seem to get their news (from only the headlines, which is how they get away with bullshit in the actual article) from the echo chamber of their facebook feeds. How does the average person know what is a legitimate news source and what isn't? In this particular case CNN seems to be the more unbiased of the two sources, but we all know that isn't always the case.


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Kaotic #139700 01/30/17 08:48 AM
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A few things really stood out for me when examining the two articles.

First, was CNN had already issued a correction for mischaracterization of one person leaving in initial version of article. Mistakes happen, but sometimes it feels like I can't recall the last time CNN made an assertion themselves, and didn't hide behind the opinion of an unnamed "source" and didn't end up having to issue a correction.

Second, the Independant article didn't note the common practice of an incoming administration requesting people to stay on for a while during the transition, giving the appearance of people quitting their jobs entirely to not serve under Trump. They did note however, some reasons why the two parties might not be congenial, such as the Benghazi testimony.

Third, the CNN article did note the recent tradition of people staying on, yet wasn't clear in the written piece on if the resignations were freely offered, or prompted by Trump. In fact, the wording of their anonymous "sources" could easily give one the impression that Trump and co. initiated the departures. This was given extra impetus by the auto-play video box, where breathless people ran with the tag-line from the anon sources: "White House Cleaning House" and basically said it was a mass firing.

Fourth, that CNN basically just ran with not only the opinion, but the wording of their two sources, who remain nameless. CNN never independently articulated any analysis, nor evidence, outside of people who remained unnamed, and reported their opinions on the matter. In rather breathless terms in the video talky-box, and with any possible hyperbole left undisturbed. While technically accurate to say that their two sources said "STUFF", a close inspection reveals the common CNN tactic of pushing someone else's opinion or take on a situation as fact. This allows CNN to technically be truthful, yet still report opinion as fact.

Fifth, what actually happened is that political appointees are required to submit a resignation to a new administration, if it is a PAS position (politically appointed, requiring Senate confirmation.) So the real story here, is that the Trump administration accepted them. We don't know without hearing from the parties involved whether they wanted to leave or not, and the Washington Post notes as much, as well as the internal confusion within the Dept as to which narrative is true.

Sixth, CNN highlighted the "loss of 150 years of institutional knowledge" put forward in the wording of their anon source, despite the fact that several of the people resigning from PAS positions are likely to continue on with the Dept in a different capacity. Is this institutional loss of knowledge, or job reassignment? Make up your mind.

Seventh, the breathless manner of the talking heads in the video box, as they recounted the anon sources opinions, crossed the line from "incomplete, crap" to really being out in left field. Using the opinions cited as a headline is really deceptive, when you state it verbally as fact, and do so in a breathless, incredulous manner.

Is the CNN article better than the Independent? Sure, you can make that argument, especially when considering the corrected CNN version, and the fact that the written CNN article at least states the fact that they are basically just regurgitating the opinions of anonymous sources.

But the CNN article is still a dumpster of shit, by any objective measure. The CNN video-box lights that dumpster on fire.

Par for the CNN course. CNN might not be fake news, but they are fake journalists with fake editors and producers.

I will note one thing though, and that is that I didn't pay a dime for CNN's take. (or the Independant's)

And perhaps, that is the problem.

To quote a German guy who once sold me a car: "joo vill get vat joo pay for."


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Kaotic #139771 02/08/17 12:43 PM
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Some interesting reporting on newsroom politics. Recommended reading.

http://www.politico.com/media/story/2017...tensions-004928


For who could be free when every other man's humour might domineer over him? - John Locke (2nd Treatise, sect 57)
Kaotic #139809 02/19/17 08:59 PM
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WSJ problem is that overlap of stupid and wealthy is much smaller than either of these sets. As such, laser sharp focus leaves them with a diminished audience.


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Kaotic #139812 02/20/17 12:23 PM
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well did my bit to improve Journalism
Gave the BBC feedback that HMS Belfast was not a a Battleship as they stated at lunch time and this afternoon it was back to being "the old British light cruiser HMS Belfast"
Old is a bit harsh looks good for its age.

Kaotic #139840 02/22/17 09:07 AM
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If the intent is to deceive by slanting reporting to advance an agenda, then CNN is indeed guilty of disseminating fake news. It isn't their job to tell people what to think. Their job is to present ALL relevant information and allow people to come to their own conclusions.

Once a news organization starts selectively reporting information, they cease to be a reliable trustworthy news organization, and instead they become an outlet for propaganda.

Last edited by Owain; 02/22/17 09:08 AM.

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Owain #139843 02/23/17 07:18 AM
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Originally Posted By: Owain
Once a news organization starts selectively reporting information, they cease to be a reliable trustworthy news organization, and instead they become an outlet for propaganda.


Off the top of my head, I can't come up with any news outlets that this does not describe. This is why I try to get my daily news from as wide a variety of sources as possible. It really is frustrating to have to spend my valuable time trying to sift out facts when that is precisely the job for which these people are paid.

Brutal #139844 02/23/17 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted By: Brutal
Originally Posted By: Owain
Once a news organization starts selectively reporting information, they cease to be a reliable trustworthy news organization, and instead they become an outlet for propaganda.


Off the top of my head, I can't come up with any news outlets that this does not describe. This is why I try to get my daily news from as wide a variety of sources as possible. It really is frustrating to have to spend my valuable time trying to sift out facts when that is precisely the job for which these people are paid.

Which is why journalism is becoming a despised profession. Pimps and lawyers are more respected.


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Owain #139845 02/23/17 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted By: Owain
Pimps and lawyers are more respected.


You would think so if you get all your facts from Fox News and Trump ^>^


Not really a poll about respect but ethics is still important:
http://www.gallup.com/poll/1654/honesty-ethics-professions.aspx

Last edited by Goriom; 02/23/17 09:41 AM.
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