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Originally Posted By: Derid

For an open society to function there has to be a balance of power between the populace and the rulers, in real terms not paper terms.


I actually agree with the above, but at the same time I don't see guns solving money in politics or wealth distribution. These are real "balance of power" issues. Having a freeman on the land nutter hole up on their ranch in a standoff with a local sheriff does not impact "balance of power" in any meaningful way.

For example, Orange Revolution in Ukraine happened without armed population and against armed government. Patriot Act and civil forfeiture happening in a most guns per civilians country in the world.

How do you explain that?


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Originally Posted By: Sini
Originally Posted By: Derid

For an open society to function there has to be a balance of power between the populace and the rulers, in real terms not paper terms.


I actually agree with the above, but at the same time I don't see guns solving money in politics or wealth distribution. These are real "balance of power" issues. Having a freeman on the land nutter hole up on their ranch in a standoff with a local sheriff does not impact "balance of power" in any meaningful way.

For example, Orange Revolution in Ukraine happened without armed population and against armed government. Patriot Act and civil forfeiture happening in a most guns per civilians country in the world.

How do you explain that?


As you well know breaking down those situations is rather complicated. Armed power is not the sole factor in any equation, obviously. It is however *another* major factor, and unbalanced physical power is certainly no less detrimental than unbalanced monetary power.

Though I would be the first to say, that weapons alone are not sufficient to solve anything. Weapons are the last option, however once the weapons are gone your options are much fewer.

One of the biggest problems with lack of weaponry, is actually the dependence it then breeds. Weapons are always needed in society, but in a well functioning society they are typically used solely by the State. But what happens when the State withdraws its protection from people, groups, or even entire areas?

Its a decidedly vicious form of control where the State abdicates its duties and leaves a disarmed populace at the mercy of the local criminal element (occasionally state sponsored or sanctioned) who somehow never seem to lack for arms, no matter the time, place, or laws against weapons.


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Interestingly, Ukraine where presently personal firearms are illegal, are in the process of legalizing most of the firearm types for private ownership.


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Yeah I have seen that article.

It actually makes me pretty sick.

Quote:
Writing for Mic.com, Mathew Rodriguez has helpfully offered “6 Surprising Ways to Curb Gun Violence That Have Nothing to Do With Gun Control.” His solutions include prison reform, addressing structural racism and correcting income inequality. Those are colossal ambitions, and yet they are somehow more plausible than a universal background check requirement or a magazine capacity restriction passing the 114th Congress.

While we pursue long-term social reforms, people are dying, and for the families directly affected by gun violence, this is unacceptable.



This right here encapsulates much of what is wrong with the media and left wing groupthink. In the face of "difficult" social and legal reforms, lets go with a "bereaved parent" emotional argument to avoid working for something meaningful and instead argue for something meaningless that might make a few people feel better about themselves.

I mean, magazine capacity? If you argue for that restriction you are literally either a stupid person or simply do not care about solving any problems and are cynically trying to make yourself look good in the eyes of those who hate people who own weapons.

Same with the constant demonization of those who collect firearms. As if the fact that someone owns "many" guns is somehow a bad thing. I mean seriously, think about it. So what if someone owns 10 guns or even 100 guns. What are you going to do, even if you are a psychopath - grow 100 extra arms and wield them all simultaneously?

I actually know quite a few people who have "arsenals". Mostly they are just affluent sport shooters. Some are collectors and/or history buffs who enjoy the artistry of weapons, typically shotguns, or the historical significance of various other long and short arms. That many media and political segments are trying to demonize collectors just shows the depth of their hate and bias.

If people would stick to things like closing certain background loopholes regarding the sale of commercial firearms (I dont think private individuals should be prohibited from transferring or loaning weapons on a personal level, though giving or loaning weapons to someone known to have a violent and or severely mental history should obviously be punishable)


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Originally Posted By: Derid
I mean, magazine capacity? If you argue for that restriction you are literally either a stupid person...


There are a lot of stupid people out there. Just because a specific point is being crudely argued by any given idiot, doesn't mean that the underlying point is necessary wrong.


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For who could be free when every other man's humour might domineer over him? - John Locke (2nd Treatise, sect 57)
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