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You know this is a faulty argument, why do you even try it? Let me turn it around on you - you think guns are good, so lets have the government give everyone who doesn't own a gun a 500$ to compensate for those that do.

What I actually said:

Quote:
outside of manufacture and sales they do not produce any meaningful economical input.


Guns are nether good or bad, they are tools. What I said is that gun ownership is a net economical loss.


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Originally Posted By: sini
gun ownership is a net economical loss.
Then from an economic standpoint you're arguing that gun ownership is bad.


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There are a few things wrong with using this as a justification for the religion of 2nd Amendment suppression.

First and most glaringly obvious: "PIRE includes both homicides and suicides in its fatality estimates, a total of more than 30,000. In 2010, PIRE figures show there were 11,078 deaths caused by guns and 19,382 suicides. Suicides carried greater financial consequences."

So for this line of thinking to play out, you have to make an assumption that the vast majority of suicides via firearm only killed themselves because they could do it with a gun. Which is obviously a nonstarter. So first thing that needs doing is reducing the claimed figure by approx 2/3

Secondly, according to the FBI data in 2010 there were 12996 homicides - 8775 of which were caused by firearms.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/cri...andhomicidemain

So right there the PIRE report credibility went out the window.

Also, if you look - ~75% victims were male and 50% were black. Combined with other available mapping/demographic data, it is quickly clear that the murder rate is far higher in "gun-free" zones in urban areas that are plagued with organized crime that suffer the bulk of homicides. Perhaps instead of looking at weapons, perhaps we should look at crime?

Furthermore, the study nor any legit study concludes that guns are the source of crime. Therefore punishing law abiding owners in manners that would not preclude criminal activity is immoral. Collective punishment is simply wrong. Right minded people refuse to be held accountable for the actions of others. Leftists may love collective punishment, and forcibly arranging society to cater to the lowest common denominator but people with a grasp on ethics reject that.

Furthermore, no comparison is made between crimes using guns and other crimes.

There are also several other issues I could take with this "report" , and I highly suspect several wways I could further eviscerate its credibility if I spent the time to dig a little deeper.

The bottom line, is I find it sad that elements at Forbes are conforming to the propaganda campaign currently being aimed at the 2dn Amendment. The same propaganda machine I will note, that let us into needless wars and has led us into subsidizing the corrupt crony financial sector.

The Statist shills will have to try a lot harder to find a legitimate reason to suppress the natural rights of US Citizens.


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Lets run for a moment with your theory that this is a directed campaign to undermine second amendment and disarm population.

Where is the money trail in this? Who profits from it?

On other hand, you can clearly see where NRA is getting paid.


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Originally Posted By: sini
Gun Nut City

Ship them all there and throw away the keys.


the atlantic lol

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Originally Posted By: sini

Where is the money trail in this? Who profits from it?



Most government do not demonize gun owners or control firearms for profit. If they wanted money they will just print some.

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He's attempting to make the case that all the gun banning talk is a product of the NRA and gun manufacturers who are making money from the ramp up of the sale of firearms.

Obviously he's right because either Joe Biden or Barrack Obama are on the TV every single day talking about how to eliminate the threat of "assault weapons" to our children, and everyone knows they are shills for the NRA and Big Gun...


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I am still not sure what Sini would like to see done to curb gun violence. I politely asked and never got an answer.

I clearly stated what changes I would be willing to accept. So can I get a "no bullshit" answer on what you honestly think would help out this situation?

I actually want to know what your view from the other side of this arguement is. If you want to send this in a private message so it isnt attacked then I am fine with that too.

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Originally Posted By: Brutal
Originally Posted By: sini
Gun Nut City

Ship them all there and throw away the keys.


the atlantic lol


Did you already reserve your spot?


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Originally Posted By: Sethan
Originally Posted By: sini

Where is the money trail in this? Who profits from it?

Most government do not demonize gun owners or control firearms for profit. If they wanted money they will just print some.


Most governments do control firearms. US has by far most lax gun laws in the world and can proudly show by far most violent gun deaths in a civilized world. You have to look at places with a raging civil wars to find more gun deaths than US.


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