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Facts are Facts...

Last edited by Wolfgang; 01/10/13 09:56 PM.
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Cartels power is certainly a result of disarmed Mexicans, the populace there is at the total mercy of their govt or any armed faction. If they arm themselves and defend themselves, the govt attacks them. If they do not, cartels or corrupt govt attacks them. It is a lose-lose no matter how you slice it.

There have been plenty of armed groups who used to terrorize the USA out in the badlands in the history of the country. Typically they were resisted and put an end to by local law enforcement calling up a militia to deal with them. Known most often as a "posse". Even where this did not put a direct end to a criminal or corrupt enterprise - the threat was always there, which attenuated large scale criminal behavior. The knowledge that committing an atrocity would lead to a large portion of the local population grabbing their rifles and coming for you was in fact the only real deterrent in many areas for many generations.

Of course thats not the whole story, as the US FedGov has extensive contacts and deals with various cartels - in addition to infiltration by undercover agents. Utilizing at times both carrot and stick, the FedGov does play a large role in keeping cartel violence mostly out of the USA - at least on a large scale.

Still, if the good guys in Mexico were allowed their natural right to arm themselves the situation would be much different. Today the impetus behind the rampant criminality is drugs... but it could be anything. The fact that a disarmed population is nothing but prey to whichever armed gang decides to victimize it, whether those armed gangs wear badges or balaclavas, will never change.


For who could be free when every other man's humour might domineer over him? - John Locke (2nd Treatise, sect 57)
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I think governments focus on banning firearms for reasons other than preventing violence within their population. History will show you why governments feel the need to disarm their citizens.

Trust me, it isnt because they are worried little Timmy might get shot in school. Consider little Timmy has about the same chance of getting hit my lightning as he does being killed in a school massacre.

I think there are some common sense things we can do in America to curb gun violence but none of them involve the word "ban". All they have done with this talk about banning things is caused a massive influx of gun sales caused by fear.

Compare the number of children killed by overdosing on legal drugs to that of school shootings. You may wonder why we are not trying ban some of the pharmaceutical drugs that are so over prescribed and resulting in these deaths. I guess you can’t defend yourself by throwing a pill bottle so the government turns a blind eye.

When was the last time you heard someone say they trusted the American government or had faith in them making decisions with our best interest in mind? Why would we let them ban the purchase of certain types of firearms? The whole purpose of that right is to defend yourself from them.

The modern version of a musket is the semi automatic rifle. Shove that ole *when they made the 2nd amendment all they had were muskets* arguement up your ass. All the government had then were muskets too. If they had only gave us the rights to bronze swords and shields while they had muskets then that might be a valid point.

Last edited by Sethan; 01/11/13 11:48 AM.
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Originally Posted By: Sethan

The modern version of a musket is the semi automatic rifle. All the government had then were muskets too. If they had only gave us the rights to bronze swords and shields while they had muskets then that might be a valid point.


Would you then support private ownership of predator drones, fighter jets or tactical ballistic missiles?


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Originally Posted By: sini
Originally Posted By: Sethan

The modern version of a musket is the semi automatic rifle. All the government had then were muskets too. If they had only gave us the rights to bronze swords and shields while they had muskets then that might be a valid point.


Would you then support private ownership of predator drones, fighter jets or tactical ballistic missiles?


Absolutely not...Lets not try to play cat and mouse either. You knew the answer to that question before you even asked it.

So let me ask you Sini. What new changes would you like to see happen to curb gun violence in America? This is not a trick question and I have no intention of belittling your opinion if I don't agree with it.

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Actually it depends on what you want to consider private ownership. If you are talking about local govt / municipalities owning heavier weapons then my answer is yes. Even in the colonial days, the general populace had small arms - but local authorities which were often converted into militia at need had heavier weapons. The British were marching to confiscate the heavier weapons when the local militias at Concord and Lexington impeded them to buy time for the cache to be moved to safety.

NYC is something of a modern example of this. NYC actually has quite a large stock of heavy weapons including anti aircraft missiles, armored vehicles, etc. Of course NYC is currently led by a fascist, who only wants people under his own authority to be armed and no one else. But many other cities and some Sheriffs actually have some sort of heavy weapons.

History has also shown that a populace with small arms, can in turn use small arms to acquire heavier weapons at need. So the general public carrying small arms during peacetime , with local authorities having the capability to stock heavier weapons is a decent paradigm that does not deny the natural right of humans to arm themselves but also does not encourage everyone to own a personal anti-tank or Stinger missile.


For who could be free when every other man's humour might domineer over him? - John Locke (2nd Treatise, sect 57)
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Excellent point...

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Gun Nut City

Ship them all there and throw away the keys.


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Interesting place. If it gets good internet, looks like a winner to me.


For who could be free when every other man's humour might domineer over him? - John Locke (2nd Treatise, sect 57)
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Gun nut equivalent to Amish movement. In 50-80 years they will get too inbred to hold a gun.


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