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Unsurprisingly you will find zero sympathy from me when you complain about gun control.

As to my personal opinion on the matter, while I'd like to see gun-free society, I know it isn't practical at this point. Guns are so prevalent, that it would be impractical, probably even impossible, to achieve this goal.

I can see absolutely no justification, constitutional or otherwise, why anything deadlier than hunting or handguns should be allowed for personal possession. We don't allow personal ownership of artillery for example, why would we allow something like AK47?

Additionally, gun ownership rules are extremely lax right now. It is far too easy to legally acquire and operate one than it is legally acquire and operate a vehicle.

We as society, when presented with evidence, agree that there is a strong case for licensing drivers and following road rules. Do people still drive unlicensed and break road rules? They do, but nobody uses these outlier cases to argue for scrapping all road rules or driver license system.


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First AUTOMATIC weapons are illegal, you will hate life if you get caught with a FULLY AUTOMATIC weapon. Although the people that go off on these shootings don't care about laws.

Second, If you have not been in trouble with the law, buying a gun legally is easy. So is getting a divers license unless you have gotten into trouble driving a vehicle without a license.

Some seem to think anyone that has a gun will simply go off shooting up everyone. When was the last time anyone has heard of someone accidentally killing 26 people because they didn't know how to handle a gun? Same goes with drunk driving, cars don't crash themselves, someone has to be driving it before that can happen. Also to note, drunk driving kills more people than guns do. So when are the same people wanting to ban guns going to start calling for the ban of alcohol?

Does anyone that owns a gun know how to use it? I'm not going to be naive, I'm sure there are people that don't, there are also people that don't know how to drive. Yet they still get into a car. If you don't believe people can't drive, then come to Tulsa, Oklahoma I will prove to you in 5 minutes that having a license means jack shit when it comes to knowing how to drive.

But to compare guns & cars are two different issues, one is a privilege the other is a right. We have the RIGHT to keep & Bear arms. I have yet to see an amendment that says we have a RIGHT to keep and bear a car!

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"I can see absolutely no justification, constitutional or otherwise, why anything
deadlier than hunting or handguns should be allowed for personal possession. We
don't allow personal ownership of artillery for example, why would we allow something
like AK47? "

The same can be said for just about anything. Computers ( omghackers ), cleaning
chemicals ( omgterrorists ), moving trucks ( omgbombers and omghumantraffikers ),
and well . . . you get the idea.

For those unfamiliar with firearms, let me clarify something.

There is no difference in lethality between a revolver, a bolt action rifle, or a
semi-automatic. None. Nada. Zip. Many firearms shoot the same calibers, only their
appearance and / or rate of fire changes. That's it.

A .223 bolt gun used for hunting is every bit as lethal as it's high capacity AR-15
brother. The latter allows you to simply shoot faster than the former. Make no mistake
about it, both are equally lethal. The former requires more skill to use than the latter
but, in skilled hands, is more effective.


"First AUTOMATIC weapons are illegal"

Not really. Full auto weapons manufactured prior to the full-auto ban are still legal
to own. They are considered Class III devices and therefore subject to NFA regulations.
In other words, you have to pay the government an extra tax to own one, have the paperwork
blessed by the BATFE and adhere to the extra rules governing the weapon in general.
Same thing applies to any NFA device. ( Short barreled rifles, suppressors, destructive
devices, etc. etc. ) Subject to your own State laws of course but, at the Federal level,
they are quite legal.


"So when are the same people wanting to ban guns going to start calling for the ban of
alcohol?"

Chuckle. I hear you. Never going to happen, tried it once. Didn't end well. Apparently
lesson not learned about banning things for everyone because a few don't know how to handle.
Alcohol abuse kills more in this country every year than firearms ever will. Yet, not a
peep about banning alcohol again.

Go ahead, someone tell me a legitimate use for an alchoholic beverage outside of getting
drunk. Then take the number of people killed / injured by it every year and compare it to
firearm deaths and injuries. Last I looked at it, alcohol related deaths were 1.5x that of
firearms deaths.

Now sit there and tell me of the two, which is the bigger problem ? I'm all ears.

Even more entertaining, you can get blitzed and plow through a crowd full of Nuns in
your car and it's not murder. It's only manslaughter. He was drunk. :|

Yet, get blitzed and grab a firearm of any kind and mow down the same group of Nuns
and watch what the charge is. Burn in hell you murderer ! lol Give em the chair !

-facepalm-



"Additionally, gun ownership rules are extremely lax right now"

Did you know, with the exception of private sales, that purchasing a firearm will subject
you to the FBI NCIS check prior to your leaving the store with it ? Every. Single. Time.
Without exception.

Purchasing a firearm LEGALLY is easy IFF you can pass the background check. If you have
never committed a crime and have never been evaluated for psycological problems, you'll
easily pass the check. Without a history to work with, it would be nigh impossible to
predict who will crack / snap next and what they will do. Even WITH a history, it would
be tough to predict.


Last edited by Daye; 12/16/12 03:41 PM.
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Originally Posted By: Daye
"I can see absolutely no justification, constitutional or otherwise, why anything
deadlier than hunting or handguns should be allowed for personal possession. We
don't allow personal ownership of artillery for example, why would we allow something
like AK47? "

The same can be said for just about anything. Computers ( omghackers ), cleaning
chemicals ( omgterrorists ), moving trucks ( omgbombers and omghumantraffikers ),
and well . . . you get the idea.

For those unfamiliar with firearms, let me clarify something.

There is no difference in lethality between a revolver, a bolt action rifle, or a
semi-automatic. None. Nada. Zip. Many firearms shoot the same calibers, only their
appearance and / or rate of fire changes. That's it.

A .223 bolt gun used for hunting is every bit as lethal as its high capacity AR-15
brother. The latter allows you to simply shoot faster than the former. Make no mistake
about it, both are equally lethal. The former requires more skill to use than the latter
but, in skilled hands, is more effective.


"First AUTOMATIC weapons are illegal"

Not really. Full auto weapons manufactured prior to the full-auto ban are still legal
to own. They are considered Class III devices and therefore subject to NFA regulations.
In other words, you have to pay the government an extra tax to own one, have the paperwork
blessed by the BATFE and adhere to the extra rules governing the weapon in general.
Same thing applies to any NFA device. ( Short barreled rifles, suppressors, destructive
devices, etc. etc. ) Subject to your own State laws of course but, at the Federal level,
they are quite legal.


"So when are the same people wanting to ban guns going to start calling for the ban of
alcohol?"

Chuckle. I hear you. Never going to happen, tried it once. Didn't end well. Apparently
lesson not learned about banning things for everyone because a few don't know how to handle.


"Additionally, gun ownership rules are extremely lax right now"

Did you know, with the exception of private sales, that purchasing a firearm will subject
you to the FBI NCIS check prior to your leaving the store with it ? Every. Single. Time.
Without exception.

Purchasing a firearm LEGALLY is easy IFF you can pass the background check. If you have
never committed a crime and have never been evaluated for psycological problems, you'll
easily pass the check. Without a history to work with, it would be nigh impossible to
predict who will crack / snap next and what they will do. Even WITH a history, it would
be tough to predict.


You're right about the full auto. But that's being technical about it. Not many people have a class III license like that because they are not only hard to obtain but are expensive. If you so much as mess up paperwork you can lose it pretty fast.

The reason I didn't mention people have to get a back ground check before buying a gun is that I figured everyone already knew this. So for those that don't, YOU DO have to go through a federal background check before you can buy a gun. Handguns in some states take a couple days for them to do a background check. Some states have what they call a cool off period, where it takes a couple days for gun purchases to be granted.

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" Not many people have a class III license like that because they are not only hard to obtain but are expensive."

Not really. Most believe this to be the case, but it is an untrue statement. ( Well, partially. Lemme explain )

You're not buying a license, per se. You only need a Class III license to sell or manufacture NFA devices. To purchase a NFA device, you merely need:

An approved Form 4 from the BATFE with your $200 Tax Stamp affixed to it. Most expensive stamp ever :|

A corporation, trust, or CLEO ( Chief Law Enforcement Officer ) card signoff and background investigation by the FBI.

Once those two are satisfied, you are free to go pick up your firearm or device. That's it.

Where the TRUE expense comes into play is the cost of the device. In the case of a full auto firearm, they are easily in the three to five digit range in price. I've seen your typical Mac-10 run about $3000, where a full blown M60 ( belt fed machine gun for you non military types ) will set you back about $30,000. The typical M16 style weapon will run in the ~$15,000 range.

Short barreled rifles / shotguns and suppressors are much cheaper. Same paperwork and rules, just not the silly prices.
Why anyone would want a full auto considering the price of ammo these days is beyond me.

Last edited by Daye; 12/16/12 03:51 PM.
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You can self-congratulate yourself as much as you want, but there is lot of difference between high-caliber automatic/semi and low-caliber handgun. Deadliness. Getting shot to the chest with AK or hollow point is probably not survivable, getting shot with bird shot hunting rifle is very survivable.


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The reason we have the right to keep and bear arms is to prevent a Govt monopoly of force.

The fact that they can be used for hunting and sport is really just a silver lining.


For who could be free when every other man's humour might domineer over him? - John Locke (2nd Treatise, sect 57)
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Originally Posted By: sini
You can self-congratulate yourself as much as you want, but there is lot of difference between high-caliber automatic/semi and low-caliber handgun. Deadliness. Getting shot to the chest with AK or hollow point is probably not survivable, getting shot with bird shot hunting rifle is very survivable.


I don't think you know much about guns and rifles.
foil

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Gun Threats and Self-Defense Gun Use

Summary: Guns are not used in self-defense that much.


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Originally Posted By: Helemoto

I don't think you know much about guns and rifles.


I know enough to realize that private ownership of something like 223 Bushmaster is unjustifiable.


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