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Derid #103212 08/15/12 06:09 AM
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Originally Posted By: Derid


Heres an idea.

http://www.teapartynation.com/forum/topi...steel-trap-mind

This is a pro-Ryan post on TPN. Now, go read some of the community replies. See what they talk about. Learn a little bit about even a single, even GOP/oriented Tea Party group.


Will do. I can't tell apart real/not real TP websites, so appreciate heads-up.


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Sini #103213 08/15/12 06:32 AM
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I read comments in your link, they were better than I expected, but...

Quote:
IMO, it will be extremely important for them to get this message out to seniors (not to mention, we should ask any senior voter who will make their life better, Obama or Romney. . .will Obamacare make really take care of them in their golden years--NO whereas Romney has called for Obamacare to be repealed and replaced).


So as a senior you voted and supported spindrift governments your entire life, and when finally there is a push to do something you want to excuse the very people that ought to take most responsibility from a fallout. I am all for supporting senors, but not when it bluntly "I already got mine" way. Even I have limits. Combination of "repeal Obamacare" + "keep your hands off the medicare" opinions really piss the fuck out of me. If this is your opinion allow me to extend invitation to go fuck yourself from all young/younger people, you selfish pricks.

Plus, from the same site...

Supporting Ryan - http://www.teapartynation.com/profiles/blogs/political-deserts
Blaming Democrats for everything - http://www.teapartynation.com/profiles/blogs/the-democrats-are-the-problem
Most active thread on forums - Birthers http://www.teapartynation.com/forum/topics/the-eligibility-issue
Thread on Ryan, all supportive - http://www.teapartynation.com/forum/topics/the-decision-has-been-made

Derid, were you hoping I would not look around?


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Sini #103217 08/15/12 07:10 AM
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No, I was making the point that even on a GOP/Conservative (not real TP) site, that there is all sorts of difference of opinion.

Judson himself (the owner) was a Newt guy as I said, not really what you call TP. But even on his site, where he ultimately controls what goes on the front page there are still plenty of different voices and opinion especially in the comments.

Look around all you like, maybe even make some note of some of the things that are said. Because some have merit (not all). Its more or less the GOP equivalent of the Huffpost.

Things to note:

1) Its a GOP/conservative site, not true TP.
2) Lots of people posting different things, none are paid contributors.. its just people. Though Judson will veto things he doesnt like, no Paul people allowed for example.
3) Even with Judson running it the way he does, you still see a lot of discussion and varying opinion in the comments.



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Sini #103220 08/15/12 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted By: sinij
Will do. I can't tell apart real/not real TP websites, so appreciate heads-up.
I think this is key to understanding your misunderstanding. The Tea Party isn't a centralized, nationally run, political party. It is random groups of concerned citizens who see a problem and are standing up to effect a change. The desire by the left and the media to pigeon-hole the Tea Party into some some vast Koch funded, right wing hate group precludes honest reporting on/of Tea Party events. The right is also guilty of projecting their desires onto the Tea Party in their attempt to co-op them.


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Kaotic #103222 08/15/12 08:37 AM
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I hope you can appreciate how difficult it is for me to keep this conversation constructive, there is just so much temptation in here...

Can I ask you in the future to be more specific in presenting "This is 'My Type' of Tea Party opinion" in the future. I understand idea behind not defining the movement, but for anyone looking from the outside refusal to define is just an open-ended invitation to define it based on labels.


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Sini #103224 08/15/12 09:28 AM
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Sinij... not really... If you want to stop trying to be constructive feel free though, I thoroughly enjoy responding to open invitations at deconstruction as you well know.

And its not refusing to define a movement... its the objective reality that a general label of "Tea Party" applies in some form or fashion to literally thousands of groups. Its very heterogeneous movement.

The labels you have been trying to attach to the movement though, and the lefties in general have been trying to attach... are akin to me calling every Dem a Marxist. I have known plenty of Dems, and plenty of liberals.. and even been to a few Dem campaign events. Guess what..... plenty of Marxists. Yeap, even at Dem campaign events I have known true Marxists.

There is a Marxist element in some areas of the Dem party. This is objective fact. However, if you try to call the Dem party a Marxist party, most Dems take offense. So, because there are a few pockets of Marxism in the Democrat party... should anyone be able to label them all as Marxists?

If you bother to take some time to truly understand the dynamics in the Dem party.. its actually pretty apparent that the vast majority of Dems arent Marxists. Even though portions of the right wing media likes to make the claim.

Its really pretty simple. Put the shoe on the other foot.


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Sini #103225 08/15/12 10:00 AM
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For who could be free when every other man's humour might domineer over him? - John Locke (2nd Treatise, sect 57)
Derid #103228 08/15/12 10:33 AM
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I will have to watch it when I get home.

From what I have seen, and with what we have recently discussed in mind, it appears that aggregation of Tea Party establishments are now enthusiastic about Romney/Ryan ticket on basis of it being fiscally conservative, despite past and present evidence that they are not fiscally conservative.

Do you agree with above statement?


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Sini #103231 08/15/12 11:56 AM
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The ones that are into the GOP ticket... I think are largely into it because its perceived as more fiscally conservative than Obama. Right now the anti-Obama folks are cheerleading.. and a lot of other people are still trying to decide what to think about it.

Theres some mistrust... but lots of the conservative movement doesnt trust anything from the NYT/CBS/etc the same way you wont look at anything from Fox/WSJ/etc. There isnt going to be a lot of anti-Ryan articles circulating on the right wing media right now.. though there has been a small amount.

Initial VP pick is always followed by a round of loud cheerleading, what will be interesting to see.. is what the perception is after things have a chance to settle down and shake out some.

Most of the enthusiasm has to do mostly I think, with the fact that he was targeted so hard by the left previously. The Dems basically created something of a folk hero with that "Push Grandma off the cliff" ad, which was also universally panned.

But yeah, people are currently thinking of him as a fiscal conservative.. even though many things on his record dont really support that.


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Derid #103232 08/15/12 12:47 PM
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Democrats on other hand already started celebrating and feel elections are now "sure thing". I am somewhat concerned and think it is too early to celebrate, last time "sure thing" gave us Bush's 2nd term. At this point policy-only elections would be Obama's, but it is never plays out this way. I am also concerned about Voter ID laws getting rolled out in Pennsylvania. While I normally do not opposed to such laws, timing of this could not be interpreted as anything but vote suppression.


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