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Sini #102921 08/08/12 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted By: sinij
You know what else he hasn't down in 4 years? Mow the lawn. You know why? Because it is not his fucking job.

There are quotes from you in the other thread saying that the budget process MUST begin with the president. You even backed that up with links to the procedure on wikipedia. Now you say its not his job. Which is it?


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Sini #102922 08/08/12 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted By: sinij
Policy doesn't work that way. This is like saying "we are going to cure cancer!". Alright, but devil is in the details. Just like in other discussion and Rep. Mick Mulvaney's bill - if there are no details it is all bunch of political theater.
Then its all just political theater since when they do include the details, no one reads it. And, I'm inclined to agree with you on this one, but that begs the question, how can you defend this statement:
Originally Posted By: Sinji
Don't take me it as questioning you, but being outsider (that how I interpret "a real person") is not enough to be enthusiastic about any given politician.


Originally Posted By: Sinji
Plus what little is there is outright wrong. For example nobody pays max corporate rate, that number is meaningless so is lowering it. Repeal death taxes? As if wealth inequality is not bad enough already. Plus how are you going to pay for this AND cut deficits.
I'll take your blanket dismissal as a concession and a lack of desire or ability to debate any of these points.

Originally Posted By: Sinji
How about this for a policy, wrap Romney in a copper wire and put him next to a magnet, this way we can solve our energy crisis with electricity produced from all the flip-flopping he does.
Well, this explains a lot about why you understand so little about efficient energy creation.

Last edited by Kaotic; 08/08/12 06:07 PM.

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Sini #102923 08/08/12 06:03 PM
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Here is how it work (LONG READ)

http://congressionalresearch.com/98-720/document.php?study=Manual+on+the+Federal+Budget+Process

POTUS already finished his part of the process, and it is not part that matters. Appropriation committee (and that why chair of approp committee is such sought-after position) and Congress have final say with Senate and POTUS only having power to not pass/veto what Congress produces.

In layman's terms - Congress creates and passes the budget.

Last edited by sinij; 08/08/12 06:06 PM.

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Sini #102926 08/08/12 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted By: Sinji's source, markedly different from his first source
The President’s budget, officially referred to as the Budget of the United States Government, is required by law to be submitted to Congress early in the legislative session. The President’s budget is only a request to Congress. Nevertheless, the power to formulate and submit the budget is a vital tool in the President’s direction of the executive branch and of national policy. The President’s proposals often influence congressional revenue and spending decisions, though the extent of the influence varies from year to year and depends more on political and fiscal conditions than on the legal status of the budget.
It doesn't say if this is criminal or civil law but surely there is some punishment due Obama since he didn't submit one for the first two years of his term.

I believe the debate was whether or not it is POTUS's job to create a budget. Clearly it is, and is required by law.

Originally Posted By: Sinji
In layman's terms - Congress creates and passes the budget.

I think I'll draw my own conclusions since yours seem to leave out important details. Didn't you say that's where the devil is?

Last edited by Kaotic; 08/08/12 06:16 PM.

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Kaotic #102928 08/08/12 06:23 PM
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Here, I found more concise source:

http://fpc.state.gov/documents/organization/34649.pdf

Do tell me what you end up deciding.


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Sini #102930 08/08/12 06:32 PM
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There is such a thing called compromise. Clinton as able to do it. I guess Obama just doesn't have the nerve to get it done.

I thought a President was supposed to lead. I guess we are expecting to much from Obama!

Sini #102931 08/08/12 06:35 PM
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That was sarcasm. I've already decided.

1) The president is required by law to submit a budget by the first Monday in February.
2) His budget isn't binding, its merely a suggestion.
3) Congress considers the POTUS budget and political games begin in earnest.
4) The budget made by congress appears to be a "follow it if you want" resolution, not actually legally binding.
5) What more evidence do we need that there needs to be a balanced budget amendment to the constitution?


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Kaotic #102932 08/08/12 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted By: Kaotic
That was sarcasm. I've already decided.
5) What more evidence do we need that there needs to be a balanced budget amendment to the constitution?


Ding ding ding... we have a winner!

Sini #102933 08/08/12 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted By: sinij
Originally Posted By: Kaotic
I haven't read through all of this, but you didn't ask me if I agreed with it. You asked for the details... I hope its not too much trouble to read between the lines and see how these things impact the deficit and budget without them actually saying, "this will lower the deficit" etc.


Policy doesn't work that way. This is like saying "we are going to cure cancer!". Alright, but devil is in the details. Just like in other discussion and Rep. Mick Mulvaney's bill - if there are no details it is all bunch of political theater.

Plus what little is there is outright wrong. For example nobody pays max corporate rate, that number is meaningless so is lowering it. Repeal death taxes? As if wealth inequality is not bad enough already. Plus how are you going to pay for this AND cut deficits.

How about this for a policy, wrap Romney in a copper wire and put him next to a magnet, this way we can solve our energy crisis with electricity produced from all the flip-flopping he does.



No, megacorps and ultrarich people get around the death and corp taxes. People in the middle get hammered. That is why they are so despised.

C'mon sinij, I just KNOW you have to have read plenty on the leftist news/opinion sites on how the megacorps, ultra wealthy and well lawyered and connected get around those things while the small guy gets hammered.

Edit: on another note... Palin? Eck. Red nailed her on the head. She didnt run for Prez because she is happy making money now anyhow. Good for her I guess, but I sure wouldnt want her in a position of authority. She might be better than Obama, but thats just because I consider Obama actively and intentionally evil. But if Palin were elected, I do not think she has the capacity to understand things well enough to make sound judgements regarding her advisers and their advice - so even if she is purehearted would just end up being taken advantage of by sycophantic evil flunkies.

Last edited by Derid; 08/08/12 07:13 PM.

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Sini #102965 08/09/12 03:21 PM
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"She might be better than Obama, but thats just because I consider Obama actively
and intentionally evil."

Meh. Doubtful it's intentional.

Delusions of grandeur maybe, but probably not intentional. I personally don't care
for Obama as he still has a lot of unfulfilled campaign promises to take care of. So
far his ideas of " fixing " our problems haven't done too much to actually fix anything.

I suppose the best way to look at it is:

" Are we any better off today than we were 3-4 years ago ? "

However, he is learning a very hard lesson in that the POTUS isn't really where the
power is. He can make all the suggestions to Congress that he wants, but since they
control the money, they make the rules.

It will be that way for any president with split houses of Congress. Only when one
party or another has a majority does anything ever change. ( Not always for the
better mind you )


" He who controls the spice, controls the universe. " -Baron Vladimir Harkonnen


Afterthought:

While I don't care much for Obama, I don't particularly care much for Romney either.
You want the top job ? You need to be a bit more transparent about your life. Release
your damn tax returns and show the world you really have nothing to hide, or forever
get dogged about it.

It's going to be hard to call this one.

I think the only way Romney is going to beat Obama is if he picks a super VP. Imagine
the fun that would start if he picked Ron Paul as a VP :D Folks would lose their minds.

lol

Last edited by Daye; 08/09/12 03:25 PM.
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