The KGB Oracle Forums General Public Discussion (SPECIAL ACCESS) KGB Political Debate Central Food Stamps, FUCK YEAH!

Well, if the govt wanted to provide links to USDA dietary info or something or have fliers with the food stamp cards I wouldnt object. Also, plenty of people with plenty of money still eat really poorly. Theres plenty of expensive food out there that is just as bad for you when over consumed. More food stamp cash is no guarantee for lower health bills later.

But your last point gets to the heart of one of the primary reasons why I absolutely do not like the type of massive Federal health programs that the Fed govt would enforce on the entire population. IE: Its not even social responsibility in many cases, its paying for other peoples poor choices or willful ignorance.



You also might be surprised to know that I vote in favor of all sorts of locally funded and administered programs.

I indeed would be surprised, but I always suspected that somewhere under all that dogma is hiding rational human individual that if not out of compassion, but at least from practicality would be willing to compromise.

I don't like paying for "other peoples poor choices or willful ignorance" myself, but what the alternative? My strong preference is non-dogmatic cost effectiveness, given that baseline level of humane treatment is met.

Be honest though, you dont actually pay much attention to what people actually say, or think through the ramifications several steps out.

I guess I wish, for the purposes at least of having interesting discussions... that you would stop with the accusations of dogma, take part in discussions as they are - and not the imaginary discussion that apparently happens in your head. If I ever decided to run for office, and you wanted to say " you dont trust what I say, this is what you really think so I wont vote for you " - I would say fine - fair enough. But no one is running for office here, its just a discussion.

You say willingness to compromise, but compromise what? My positions as stated have not changed. In fact they have been pretty plain if you ever chose to actually look.

As far as putting people in your neat little groups, I find it utterly amazing that you think that I am close in many regards to some people that have posted on this forum. Sure, there is some agreement... but as you yourself pointed out in a separate thread ( that I reallly wanted to jump into, but didnt) , different sets can have overlap but still be very dissimilar overall.

You will hate me for answering this way, but to answer your question honestly - to not blindly and unquestionably following your dogma that explicitly says that any and all social program are the spawn of Satan.

Still, even conservative dogma is a moving target these days, just like Romney learning the hard way that being a successful businessman is considered a bad thing amongst conservatives these days.

If I was having conversation only with you, I would consider, but so far I have seen too many "graceful exist" followed by "release the hounds!" ...



If you have disagreements, or even ever condemn any shenanigans, you are awfully quiet about it and don't act on it at all.

I mention that before, I will mention it again - if you want to differentiate yourself from conduct of others you cannot be "thick as thieves" throughout the argument, then quietly slip away once things turn ugly and pants-on-your-head behavior start coming into play. Like voting my profile to 1 star then going passive-aggressive when I retaliated. Your choices are : a) not participate at all b) participate and take responsibility c) participate and condemn actions.

Sorry for the derail, but I think Food Stamps argument was coming to a close, so I took this opportunity to have a frank conversation.

P.S. Your PM box is full and was that way for a long while.

But, oddly enough that has never been my dogma. Perhaps you could explain would you are insistent that this is so.

As for my PM box.... that is interesting, sounds like Jet broke it again. It has happened before.

The bottom line though, is I am not moderator of this forum. If you want to continue engaging in discussions that have gotten out of whack, I can only assume it is because you enjoy doing so. If you had been following the discussions here for any length of time, you would also know that I have had many disagreements with people on this forum.

I think the heart of the matter is really individualist vs collectivist thinking though. You put people into collectives based on arbitrary judgement, I look at individual responsibility. If a thread goes to shit, sure, I will stop posting in it. But your insinuation that I am somehow "releasing the hounds" or have any communication with most of the posters here outside of these threads is silly.

Other people post what they think, I post what I think. Vuldan, who is the person I think you are referring too , had a short spat - the stopped posting of his own accord. That weeks later, you are still trying to paint others in a certain color based on the actions of someone who had a flame-out strikes me as immensely silly.

Some of the other flame-throwing that has gone on - you have clearly instigated. In cases where you have clearly ignored what was written by someone, twisted it, and put words in their mouth - I am not about to coming running to your defense when they flame you back. Besides, you have been pretty insistent on grouping together people from the get-go ; this trend of yours did not start after you ran into resistance to your dogmas, you came here with a clear chip on your shoulder. Many of your initial posts were even to the purpose and stated intent of lumping "conservatives" together into one homogenous group. Using left wing media articles as kindling, you tried to start flame wars as you attempted to fit anyone who disagrees with you into a box of "them".

I dont know why you would even admit to your one-starring campaign, I found it silly but so be it.

Where you really jumped the shark though, is when I got back from traveling and you started in on me with ad hominim attacks out of the blue. Which you then explained as retaliation for things other people had apparently posted. This type of behavior is a real pet peeve of mine. Ironically enough its also a page right out of W Bushes playbook " your either with us, or your with the terrorists". I reserve my right to be with neither.

Edit - I don't want to get into pointless flame war.

Derid, if you want your distinct voice, start differentiating and/or distancing yourself from actions of others.

No, I hit the issue smack on the face. You just choose not to process anything that you do not wish to hear.

Also, your analogy makes zero sense in this context. A more apt analogy would be - I am sitting in a bar, other people are also sitting in the bar. Some liberal comes in and pours his beer on some other guys, gets punched in the mouth... then complains that I did not stick up for him.

The one-starring campaign... against you? I was aware of no such thing, certainly noone spoke to me about one. Rather, after pointing out your moral failures and hypocrisies - I was the target of the one-starring campaign. So I find your statements in this regard somewhat odd.

I never requested you treat me separately btw, I am not looking for your approval here - I am calling you out on your hypocrisy and lack of reasoning ability. The fact that you would assert that I am responsible for the content of other peoples posts is prima facie evidence of such.

If I post something, feel free to respond to me. Should you respond to me, I will make reasonable efforts to engage in meaningful conversation. If you respond to someone else but make it look like you are responding to me - I will call you out for acting like an idiot. Its really as simple as that.

Alright, since you won't let this rest...

In case you wanted an example to work toward - Tasorin is an independent conservative-leaning poster. You? A loud voice in a choir. When was the last time you voiced disagreement with anything, no matter how irrelevant, illogical or outright false that was posted by a conservative? I can't honestly find a single example, and I have looked. Forget intellectual integrity, forget good faith arguments - you tow the party line 24/7, every post, no matter how ridiculous it is, and then have an audacity complain that I unfairly group you with the rest of the choir.

It is so obvious to anyone reading these debates that I have no idea why are you bothering to deny it.

As to 'rating' debate - way to play victim when YOU personally left the rating, YOU personally complained about it in the sig and you personally not saying anything when Wolfgang initiating whole thing around time constitution/nanny state debate time frame. Now, I don't actually know any of this for the fact, but if Jet posts logs and I am wrong I will write personal and public apology to every person I wronged.