The KGB Oracle Forums General Public Discussion (SPECIAL ACCESS) KGB Political Debate Central Does government regulation kill jobs?

yes, my comment was about you saying the word "enjoy" like it was like free give by US. To me when you create/develop a service/product you gain money so you are not losing your GDP to it, because the rest of the world will pay for it, so its a not a cost like you were trying to pass, if I understand.

For example years ago went to Brazil news, a disput problem with Brazil med factories(public) producing medicines to give for free for people with AIDs in the countrie, that ending with a agreement to continue paying royalties to US companies.

Ok, I asked that question for a reason. Did you read Vuldan's post about socializing grades? If not you should, and then honestly tell me how hard you would work for your grades if no matter what you did you would get the same reward as the rest of the class.

Now, I assume you've realized that you would not study hard at all and would in fact feel cheated because you're paying to get an education and want to be rewarded for your hard work.

How then is that in any way different for folks who work hard everyday to find break through cures for myriad diseases and then get paid for it? If there is no reward on the back end, why would they work hard to find the cures?

Let's assume that ALL of the researchers who are finding cures are 100% altruistic and are only doing it because they want to help people (there are probably quite a few that are that way). Now, while they may be smart and capable they can't just wish equipment and facilities for research into being. Some one has to pay that bill. Should that person, who pays out millions of dollars to finance research not be compensated for their investment? What about the fact that nearly ALL of the medical investors in the country completely lose their shirts on most of the research that never pans out, or takes decades to bear fruit? If they don't make some money on the few things that do work, they won't have any to keep investing in things like HIV or cancer, that still don't have cures after decades of research.

To answer your question about the word "enjoy." From Webster's Dictionary enjoy: to have for one's use, benefit, or lot
It doesn't necessarily mean to like or take pleasure in, but no definition of it indicates something enjoyed would be free.

I think the language barrier is beating us up here. I didn't suggest that making medicine is a cost to be factored in to the percent of GDP spent on medical care. I'm making exactly the opposite case, that money spent on R&D should not be included in the numbers that Sinj has posted to show that the US spends more per capita on health care than other countries.

Something else just occurred to me. I used to have a friend in New Zealand. She suffered from chronic bronchitis, the cure for which is a minor surgery (tonsillectomy I think). Their socialized medical care would not provide that operation for her unless her bronchitis was life threatening. Instead she was forced to go see a doctor 3 to 4 times a year and wait for hours each time (after waiting days for an appointment) to get a prescription for an antibiotic (over use of which, by the way, only serves, through evolution, to ensure that those bacterium continue to grow stronger and stronger by eliminating the weak ones and selecting for those that are resistant to the drugs) that would then take several more days to eliminate the infection so she could return to work. Now, the medical treatment was nearly free for her, but what about the cost of her lost time at work, to both her and to the company she worked for? What about all the other folks who could be helped when they are wasting time seeing her over and over and over again rather than fix the problem once and for all? These are just a few of the problems with "free" medical care.

Please do not came with that history for child, I recomend you to read "Das Kapital" by Karl Marx, take a read full without any prejudice. It will no be a like history to a child about their grade take way by other people.

Also how is high school in US, do you guys take Political Science and other classes related to that like philosofy, sociology and etc?


the rest your comment is unecessary, I do not know, are you sure that like to me you pointed out that the 16% in US was because the word R&D, that i guess you are saying about research and development, so those 16% is because you are saying that you are is more expensive because that? but if that is true are you putting that in the equation the money gained with all patents and royalts around the world gained with those discoveries?

http://repository.upenn.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1012&context=psc_working_papers&sei-redir=1&referer=http%3A%2F%2Fsearch.yahoo.com%2Fsearch%3Fp%3Dwhy%2520is%2520the%2520us%2520life%2520expectancy%2520and%2520child%2520mortality%2520lower%26fr%3Dytff1-#search=%22why%20us%20life%20expectancy%20child%20mortality%20lower%22

Take what you want from that link. Its a paper from the University of Penn.

In Brazil the "free(not free)" goverment health care system is a chaos, tha patient will wait much more like in your example, the private plans of course are much better but 70% population cannot pay for it, because its 2 times their whole salary per month(base familiar income here is about $500 US per month). So if we didnt have even a precarious government health system, that would be a big internal problem. I´m saying if there is a country that would make work a public and efficient health care system, that would be US and cheap.

I'm saying that 16% INCLUDES the cost of research and development and that for there to be accurate comparison to the socialized medical communities those moneys should be removed from that figure.

What is wrong with this analogy? Please explain to me why this is childish. It is a nearly perfect analogy for capitalism vs. communism.

Yes, in high school I had Political Science, Sociology, American History, and World History. I also had Algebra, Geometry, Trigonometry, and Calculus. Since then I've had three more history classes, a psychology class and two economics classes in college (never mind the chemistry, biology, physics and other courses). None of that includes the dozens of books I've read on these subjects and online research I do on a regular basis to stay informed. How is any of this pertinent to the debate? If you're trying to suggest that my viewpoints are molded by lack of education I'm afraid that dog won't hunt.

I would gladly read Das Kaptital, unfortunately its not free and I feel that it would be contributing to the evil capitalist machine if I purchase it. Perhaps if there is a copy at the library I'll check it out.

You've already pointed out several times to us, that much of the problem is Brazil is the corruption in the government. I think you have to seriously look at fixing that before you can legitimately talk about fixing your health care system.

Because it´s too simplistic, and do not put in many variable involved, and you do not get rich yourself alone, it´s not your hardwork alone. Many of the great bilionaries of the USA in the past century achivied that with exploring hard work of people with bad work conditions, so their fortunes were not fruit of their hard work, it was product of bad regulations from government. Give an example here from Brazil the Barons of Coffe got rich by exploring slave work until almost 1900.. then with the pression from england and other countries the government freed the slaves, while instead of giving them jobs they preferead to import imigrant work from europe and japan to work in their plantations..

ps: I´m not communism(comunism is not the answer for our society) or like socialism, but I believe we must find a balance betwen capitalism and some services that some of you would consider socialism like universal health care system(not free).

The private plans are a big industries that moves billions of dollars per year, its a industry like the war industry, so there are big lobbies behind it, telling and spreading lies to that their dominance continue going on..



Not in any moment I tried to say that you were not educated, but somehow to us the general archetype of an highschool american is that hes not that bright, sometimes you(the american) cannot point out where is the Europe in tha map of the globe(at same type you have stereotypes of the other peoples countries), to us is pointed that you guys only know about yourselves and your way of life, so if you guys really had political sciency and studied a semester on that you have at least to read some parts of Karl Max creations, but that would be waste of time or heresy to US people.

And I know you are that have more arguments out of people here in KGB about your political view points.

Monetary system and grade system are two different concepts, there isn't finite amount of grades that we as a society need to redistribute in most effective way and lack of grades does not result in dire socio-economic consequences for the individual.