The KGB Oracle Forums General Public Discussion (SPECIAL ACCESS) KGB Political Debate Central VOTE FOR RICK PERRY!! NO SERIOUSLY!

I wear a tin foil cap everyday and believe in evolution.

Is that really all you got Jet? I expected more. What would you rather have a system like Europe and be even further in debt? (so far they haven't shown they can sustain all the freebies) There are other ways to cut healthcare cost, will it be free? NO! But it would be cheaper. A smart guy like yourself should know Government buracracy adds costs to anything it's hands are in.

I don't like how fucked up the government spends my taxes as it is, let alone let them dictate my healthcare. Also Jet, if you're so caring and want to help people with no Insurance. Maybe you should give to a charitable fund hospitals have that help people with no Insurance, like the one I recieved help from with my hospital bill when I didn't have Insurance. Also, 3 days and $79,000 for test's goes to show you how much MORE cost is in California. I know there's some exspendive testing, but that's ridiculous.

On the California thing, California has many social programs. And taxes dirt that's on dirt, and I'm sure those taxes aren't cheap. So why is the worlds 5th largest GDP broke? Is it because of FOX NEWS or BUSH? Surely it couldn't be the social prgrams costing to much, because we all know that stuff is free. Maybe Solyndra can help out with some energy... OH WAIT!

Such ridiculous and lopsided socialist mentalities Jet. It gets worse the older you get. It continues to baffle me, it really does. Smartest dumbass I have ever known. (Politically speaking anyway)

Well I would argue that the lack of regulation in the financial world allows credit default swaps to tank our entire economy. 8 years of Bush hypocrisy, that PROVED that tax cuts do not stimulate the economy or create job growth. The rich get richer, the middle class is disappearing, and the poor get poorer. Once the economy was destroyed, then the tax base dried up, and everyone suffered even more.

Republicans are the same people that screamed that GM was a lost cause, and should be left to rot, then cant admit it when you are wrong when they recover.

Republicans are the same people that got us into the longest wars in US history, with no plan to get out, and mass corruption behind it all. Imagine our economy if we didn't have those wars.

Republicans are the same people that cheer Rick Perry for 250 plus executions in Texas, but at the same time reject a womans right to choose what happens in her own body, deny two human beings the right to marry and be treated equally under the law, and reject science.

Now lets take 8 years of disastrous policies and blame them on the current administration who was left holding the bag to clean it all up.

That's how I see it, and as I have stated many times, I am a follower and believer in the PBS Frontline series. The truth is all there for you to see if you can open your eyes. I have posted these many times to deaf ears. You can hear it from the players themselves.

Wolfgang although you found a way to pay for your health care, many have no way. When you are born to uneducated parents in the inner city, you don't have those same options, and people like you guys want to sentence these people to hardship and death. This is not the United States as I see it.

I don't have kids, and yet I pay for education. Why? Because the success of the people is the success of the country, and therefore my success.

I can just hope more people see it my way than yours.

Typical blame Bush is back on the table. Kinda late for that.

You are a socialist. Tell me what do you do when you run out of other peoples money???

The tax cuts did stimulate the economy and job growth, its the only thing keeping us from falling further behind.
I would be what is considered middle class and my income has gone up and up and up for 10 years. Explain that if the middle class is going away.

The democratic politicians passed a law that forced banks to make loans to people that were unable to pay back the loans, that is what caused the collapse. Take PBS liberal talking heads how you want but look to other sources for once.

As for the wars, I suppose you want us to just turn the other cheek and bend over and wait for the next one.
GM should have been left to rot.

As for the juicing the bad guys that's up to what you want to thing but The dems had 2 full years controlling everything and didn't pass gay marriage, so....... and abortion is legal last time I looked. Why do you keep saying they reject or dont believe in science??

As for health care it has been stated many times that you can get care if you have no insurance so show me the streets of dead people that didnt get care.
As for the 50 million that dont have it.. take away the illegal immigrants,the people who dont want insurance, the self employed and that number drops to less then half that number.

When the government spends and spends and spends the small companies and large freeze hireing new people cause they know it will bite them in the ass when the government calls for more taxes.

BTW everyone pays for education its not an option.

It wasnt credit default swaps that tanked the economy. Do you not even see the structural factors at play?

The PBS Frontline shows arent bad. But remember, the people who "were there" that they get on the show have one purpose and one purpose only for appearing - to try and cover their own asses and justify themselves. (and try to preempt future criminal charges/lawsuits via court of public opinion )

As for the rest... jeez, label much? I dont think most of us fit those labels at all. I do see a lot of edge issues though, like abortion... totally synthetic issues that do not even matter in the slightest, but are used by manipulators on the right and left to keep the electorate preoccupied and divided over meaningless things like abortion and gay rights while they make off with the loot.

You should try and put yourself in the shoes of someone who tries or does run their own business. Try dealing with a govt that does nothing except fuck with you when some buraeucrat needs to make quota, navigate all the BS, and pay out the ass... then try to make payroll and still have time to get the actual work done.

Theres a damn good reason the govt is near universally loathed by people who aren't either in a cozy corp job with a mega multinational, or rich enough to afford an army of lobbyists and lawyers.

[quote=JetStarWell I would argue that the lack of regulation in the financial world allows credit default swaps to tank our entire economy. 8 years of Bush hypocrisy, that PROVED that tax cuts do not stimulate the economy or create job growth. The rich get richer, the middle class is disappearing, and the poor get poorer. Once the economy was destroyed, then the tax base dried up, and everyone suffered even more. Seriously? Not only woefully inaccurate, but complete fabrication. Those cuts were actually the last thing that stimulated the economy with anything more than abysmal failure, pathetic policy and horrible spending policies that hhave financially gutted this country. Stop blaming the past administration for the repulsive tactics of this pathetic excuse of an administration led by a president whose only ability is to bluster and attempt to inact more spending policies which will not solve the issues.

Republicans are the same people that screamed that GM was a lost cause, and should be left to rot, then cant admit it when you are wrong when they recover. The bailout of GM and AIG, Citigroup and all the rest was an abhorrent abuse of power and the most fiscally pathetic action to date. Completely wrong in its very concept, it only served to really mess things up, as companies which should have failed for a lack of solid management and responsibility, instead are still around creating a sucking chest wound of epic proportions. AIG just loves that they are off the radar. I didnt see your wonderful administration rushing to the aid of the thousands of small companies that went bankrupt when the continued economic woes rendered them incapable of sustaining themselves.

Republicans are the same people that got us into the longest wars in US history, with no plan to get out, and mass corruption behind it all. Imagine our economy if we didn't have those wars. You need to seriously go back to friggin school. With the exception of the Iraq/Afghanistan conflict, you have to go back to the Spanish American war to find one that we (americans) were involved in at the behest of a Republican leader. The rest, WW1, WWII, Korea, Vietnam...blah blah...you guessed it..Democrat leadership. The War machine does not have a political party.

Republicans are the same people that cheer Rick Perry for 250 plus executions in Texas, but at the same time reject a womans right to choose what happens in her own body, deny two human beings the right to marry and be treated equally under the law, and reject science. LOL...on this one, I just have to laugh. You commit a major crime, murder, rape, what have you, you do not deserve to live even in a prison. That is not politics, that is human. I will pull the switch myself and sleep good at night. As was stated, abortion is legal, does not mean everyone has to agree with it. The arguement you use is mute, as it is one sided. Does the man who contributed his seed not deserve a choice in that? Ah yes, grounds for another philosophical arguement. Marriage is a word, and the advancement of the gay/lesbian agenda is no different than any other political bullshit agenda. Fuck them and their "we deserve equality" BS. It will never be enough, just as with so many arguements for fair treatment and equality, which, when enacted have simply been the launching ground for yet one more. And before anyone calls me homophobic, suck my ass. I have a brother and a sister who are homosexual, neither of whom are demanding the rights to marry their partners, even tho my brother and his partner have been together for 25 years. What the fuck does science have to do with it?

Now lets take 8 years of disastrous policies and blame them on the current administration who was left holding the bag to clean it all up. This is a repeated arguement of yours, completely baseless and founded on a lack of specific information that can allow your chosen administration to perform with any degree of credibility. Its bullshit, completely undefendable and lacks imagination.

That's how I see it, and as I have stated many times, I am a follower and believer in the PBS Frontline series. The truth is all there for you to see if you can open your eyes. I have posted these many times to deaf ears. You can hear it from the players themselves. Political biased programming in many cases, out of context comments and a blending of truth do not make these perfect. In many cases it is ass covering "fess" ups and people trying to engender public support so they dont get slapped down.

Wolfgang although you found a way to pay for your health care, many have no way. When you are born to uneducated parents in the inner city, you don't have those same options, and people like you guys want to sentence these people to hardship and death. This is a complete cop-out. It is thhe typical social mindset, that some how this is the root of the problem. PHA. There are countless situations where this has been proven to be a complete falsehood. You need to read Bridges out of Poverty by Ruby Paine, get some perspective on this, and then donate 1/2 of your paycheck to the nearest National Guard Youth Challenge program, you have two in your state, the most successful at-risk youth programs in the country, which thoroughly disproves this fallacy. 89% success rate. This is not the United States as I see it.

I don't have kids, and yet I pay for education. Why? Because the success of the people is the success of the country, and therefore my success. Your first unbiased and intelligent comment in a while.

I can just hope more people see it my way than yours. I hope they do not. I hope that somehow, the vast number of people who cast ballots in the last election based on the color of a mans skin, wake up to the reality that he is a bonifide idiot incapable of leading a country and should never have been elected to do so. His wife would make a far better president than he will ever be. And I hope that the rest recognize that Rick Perry is a fanatical psychopath who also should never have been elected to anything, but certainly not President.

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Thanks Vuldie, I was gonna do that and you saved me the time

Abortion - Having been that man, I agree completely with your statement about the man's rights. I would have gladly taken the child off her hands and never looked back, but she thought it would be better for her to kill my unborn child.

The Dream will come true when that piece of shit President you voted for gets the boot !!

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424...Opinion_LEADTop

Speaking of regulation, lets take a look at what kind of regulation is going on in the housing market.


So it was all the Unregulated credit default swaps aye?


We got a DO IT or Else scenerio... FORD was in the same boat, they didn't take any money, they recovered. This is basically a participation award, just because you showed up you get something. Ford didn't show up in their Jet's, or leizured at the Unions posh country club. They survived, GM could have as well. If you keep giving them loans and bailing them out for the umpteenth time, they will never learn from their mistakes because big brother is always there. Big brother is broke...time for plan B.


Afghanistan, we did right going in. Iraq, I think it was the wrong time. But we was going to have to go in at some point, those 8 years of Clinton really never doing anything more than lobbing a few missle at Saddam slapping his hand really showed him. And we can't forget the U.N. Oil for food scam. We could have just took a big ol' shit and did nothing, Just chalk it all up as "our bad" take a play from Britains recent shameful demostrations and cower down to those terrorist fuck.( I'll post a video at the end so you can see what I mean). As far as this mass corruption, are you talking about the hundreds of millions of dollars Bush and Cheney recieved? If so, I'd like to see that information. With our economy, Imagine it if we did nothing after 9/11, we would been seen as some whipping dogs. So it would have been an ongoing attacks. I'm pretty sure the economy wouldn't be reacting very well to car bombs or more planes hitting buildings. Hopefully we don't become such pussies, that a scenerio like that EVER happens.


I'm pretty sure comparing executions of CRIMINALS (people that committ heinous crmies) to abortion is dumb. I see a womans right to do with her own body as she see's fit. BUT! I also believe that you never know what life you are extinguishing... what if that child grew up to find a cure for cancer, or some other disease.


Well lets see, I think adding Government ran healthcare isn't a big win on the spending department. That's a HUGE cost, consider the cost of Medicare/medicade as it is now. And you want to add more? Sure lets just keep on taxing, that won't have any kind of ill effect on our economy. Again I ask... if this government ran healthcare is such a grand item... why do people in those systems come to the U.S. for surgery? and why are those governments in high debt? AGAIN... theres other ways to cut cost. Besides, wouldn't it be better to have an economy where more people were working making money to pay for their own insurance that's affordable with those other cost cutting ideas, rather than having them on unemployment at best and having someone else provide their healthcare. JOB wins hands down!



I understand people have no money. But there are enough safety nets that help those people. It's also worthy to note. People need to take it upon themselves to find work. A lot of these really poor people, are simply lazy and don't want to work. They want someone else to provide for them, I've seen it. I grew up near people that wanted nothing more than someone to provide for them. That SOMEBODY owed them something. This is a part of the reason why I'm against handouts to people, they should have a stake in their part. If this means doing so many hours community service, then I maybe more willing to be more receptive to an idea similar to the HANDOUT. Plus the whole Government taking the money I worked hard for, just to give to someone else thing doesn't sit well.


When it comes to part of my taxes going to public education, I have no problem with. I went to public school and someone was paying taxes while I was there. So I see this as paying that back. However I think someone other than government should be overseeing spending to make sure there's no abuse.



Unless I've read you wrong, if more people see it your way than mine. We would be living in pure Socialism!

Here's the video I mentioned above...Make SURE you watch it starting about 2:45 mark.