The KGB Oracle Forums General Public Discussion (PUBLIC) The Pub What was...

I think youre being very optimistic to think that there wont be any small cliques in any large guild. KGB has truly stood the test of time imo, thanks to Jet.

Binbs is right, Drak. I have yet to see a guild where there isn't factions of some sort or the occasional back-lashing drama. That's why I said that it's a particular theme I've noted in the past 10 years - it's unfortunately part of the MMO culture, and is something I wish wasn't there (which was why I said all of that to begin with). The larger a guild and community gets, the more likely there will be inner-factions. Remember Dark Cadre, Cadre Saltuarius, etc? Different factions...but those were created via infrastructure, not by people in a good-ol boy system.

When you find someone having a serious problem with another member, listen to what is being said and try to find a way to bridge that gap between the people.

You know...Drak, that link you posted about CQ really doesn't even count as the drama I've been talking about. It pertains more to members having a problem with the leadership (and trying to hide it in humor) - I'm talking about members not getting along entirely with their peers (same in every guild).

There's a list of people that couldn't stand Zorak - He's too condescending. Yet In the entire whopping 2.5 years I've been in KGB I have yet to witness anyone having a problem with Jetstar.

All big guilds that have been around for a long time have had it. I can say though that in todays KGB it's not so much but in the KGB of the past yea we had alot of problems. I think todays KGB has grown alot and it shows in our accomodations with the new constitution and commitment from the new and long time members.

Time also has a lot to do with things in general.

Many of the folks you loved / hated have likely changed quite
a bit since then. Remember the folks you just HATED in UO ?
Ya, well that was what. . . a DECADE ago ? Ya, you're
getting old ( so did they ) Get over it.

Think about how much YOU have changed in that time period,
then give some thought about that grudge. . .

I'm not sure how many of you played ShadowBane for the Nth time
when the Asian / American servers merged but I can tell you this:

It was old grudges that folks would not let go that ultimately
became their downfall. Their inability to put aside some silly
ass disagreement and work together got them obliterated.

Why ?

While individual guilds could hold their own against other
similar numbered guilds just fine, when the true Zerg came ( and I
assure you the Eastern guilds redefined the term ) we simply did
not have the numbers to counter them. These folks would bring
5-8 Groups to a MINE fight. A mine. :|

If you baned a single Eastern Guild, the entire MAP would show up
to defend it. It wasn't even a contest usually. More like, a
slaughter.

Had all the guilds took off their damn blinders and saw the
danger, it might have had a different outcome. However, infighting
and bickering over Mickey Mouse BS kept the guilds splintered and,
in the end, pretty much doomed the server.

Drak:

You've been around long enough to see all this mess before
The bigger or older a guild gets, it develops it's ' core '
members, cliques, and ideals about how it should be run. Sometimes
they conflict and splinter off and become new guilds.

Just goes with the territory I guess.

Show me a medium / large sized guild that doesn't have similar
issues and I'll show you a guild who hasn't been around for long

-Daye

Thank you all for your insights into KGB, it helps create a clearer picture of KGB knowing that the leadership here is not reactive but proactive, and that Jet and the others are always trying to improve the guilds function and social dynamics instead of encouraging the dysfunction of the guild and it's members. I will not comment on Zorak out of respect, whether he deserves that respect or not is not my place to say. But I will say that having been an officer, and a leader I am well aware of the fact that all guilds develop social issues, yes it is the nature of the beast. Since guilds are little more then social clubs, which add to a greater gaming community, drama is almost a certainty, but it's how those issues are handled which is important to me.

My experiences in Cadre Quietus and other guilds, has left a sour taste in my mouth for people who are overly sensitive, and take everything personally. In the past I tried to be sensitive to peoples complaints which always ended up with me getting caught in the middle and eventually turned into the instigator of the issue when I had nothing to do with it initially. Now, I am much less involved in this side of guild management, and have taken a rather blunt and direct approach. This change reflects my attitude toward a ever growing trend in some guilds that being politically correct, or in contrast being apathetic, which is what I believe Zorak to be doing, is the best way to handle a guilds social dynamics. I conform to neither philosophy, I think being direct is best and that "tough love" if you prefer, is the only way for some players to understand that their actions are not constructive.

As Crimthan can attest to, being the guilds super patriot did little more then to put me in direct line of fire for many of the guilds social issues, and trying to resolve the issues Cadre had in a sensitive and diplomatic manner during our membership was a immpossible task, one which I never want to repeat.

Yah, when you took leave of CQ, I became a Guild Elder and took over your role of "super patriot" and "instigator" as you call it. It really gets you nowhere in that kind of setting, because frankly, the man at the helm just doesn't care. Zorak on more than one occasion brushed me off by saying, "Ah, Crimthan the Cowboy..." I'm certain he didn't mean that one as a compliment, but I chose to take it that way.

apathy pure and simple...