The KGB Oracle Forums General Public Discussion (SPECIAL ACCESS) KGB Political Debate Central GOP internal civil war

Have you considered that "meaningful discussion about anything" could involve discussions of intentional default, de-funding EPA, building a wall, starting a war with Iran and so on?

I am not convinced that GOP, it is present state, could be trusted to responsibly govern. While Boehner could be classified as all kinds of bad, he largely contained the tsunami of crazy from doing any immediate catastrophic damage.

If process was followed, minority parties would also have more say.

Putting Boehner and his crew up as the group that stands in the way of the things you describe is a long stretch at best. I think its a big misconception a lot of people, unfortunately have.

And its a misconception that needs cleared up among the electorate at large , so more honest reps, whatever their views and affiliations, can feel confident in pursuing reforms.

Again I ask, why arent more Dems fighting against the party leadership oligarchies? Fighting for better process, and less centralization of power is or at least should be a bipartisan goal.

For those few fringe issues that the left likes to cite, the bottom line is the far right simply does not have the votes regardless, its a straw man that only helps the Boehner and Pelosi crews.

Why is Tea Party successful influencing GOP while Occupy movement failed to influence Democrats? They almost share platforms. I think this is because the original TP withered and what left is now an astroturfing mechanism used by a few tycoons. Viewed through this lens, current GOP turmoil is one group of oligarch trying to push out another group of establishment cronies so they can get into the trough. No good guys to be found anywhere.

Leaving the Dems aside for now, just to avoid tangents -

I think there is something to what you are saying. But also think that quite a few people are ideologically inclined. I think this includes some rich folks.

But still, I think a major difference is regardless of anything else the TP movement came with a large strain of citizen governing. In the GOP, major strategies of the genuine grassroots were to grab party positions even at the county and State level for example.

The apparatus was actually infiltrated. The anger towards the elite oligarchs abusing process to shut out the grassroots voice and try and force their agendas on everyone is real.

The manner in which it manifests at times can be ugly, when it crops up over wedge issues. But I consider it blowback, which is why I was laughing so hard earlier in the thread. The issues like abortion that were initially manufactured by the elite apparatus to keep everyone distracted have become monsters in their own right and threaten to consume them.

This is pretty much naked power grab giving the Freedom Caucus majority-like power. That we know they won't responsibly use.

Oh the sweet, sweet boomerang justice for gerrymandering these 40 'safe' districts.