The KGB Oracle Forums General Public Discussion (SPECIAL) The KGB Back Room Take that you dirty rats...

First off, you do realize that they can say anything on the floor of the House with impunity, right? i.e. you can't be sued for liable or slander for anything you say while debating in congress.

Second, I'm not affiliated with any political party. I prefer to turn on my brain and use a little common sense rather than be spoon fed whatever drivel they believe I'm capable of understanding.

I don't know where he got "130,000 new agencies" but Obamacare definitely does create new ones. I'm sure its not that many.

New IRS agents = Fact - Several thousand new agents will be required to enforce the fining and subsequent audit procedures for the folks who refuse to pay for health care.

Death panels = Fact - Of course they aren't called death panels, and they will likely never sit and say "you aren't worth keeping alive" but they will require your doctor to "counsel" you and your family about the "pros and cons of extending your end of life care." That's a pretty slippery slope. I know I don't want anyone trying to convince me that my grandparents aren't worth spending the money on to keep them alive. Nor do I want anyone attempting to convince my grandparents that they are a burden on my family and they should just "let nature take its course"... Mostly because of the cost. If you think it won't be all about money when the government is in control of your health care, then I don't think you and I can have an intelligent debate.

Members aren't covered = Fact - Congress and the President aren't required to purchase health care because we provide the very best for them already. Nothing in the bill changes that, so their coverage won't change, while we won't be allowed to keep our plans after this year if there are any changes made to the plan...

No tort reform = Fact - You find me significant tort reform in that bill and I will eat my shoe.

"The we don't really mean it strategy" He's right on with this one. Obviously these morons didn't get the message in November. We don't want the same shit with a different name, put forward by different members, we want real change and a repeal of this monstrosity.

"Socialized medicine - Giving people incentives to go to private insurance companies." Yes there is language in the bill that suggests these incentives exist, however, much of the rest of the bill will drive private insurers out of business and then what will you do?

"The republicans are a wholey owned subsidiary of the health insurance industry" - If they are working to repeal the bill then they are doing the will of, what numerous polls put at, over 70% of the citizens of this country.

By all means, if you want to continue to keep your head in the sand and pretend that Social Security and Medicare aren't completely bankrupt (just like the entire federal government) then do so, and I refer you to my previous statement that you and I cannot have a reasonable debate.