The KGB Oracle Forums General Public Discussion (SPECIAL ACCESS) KGB Political Debate Central Food Stamps, FUCK YEAH!

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- "I believe organic and very fresh or frozen food would be optimum for me, but I have to make compromises because of the money."

Read more: http://www.seattlepi.com/lifestyle/food/...p#ixzz1k0ZdKCLn
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And then, there is this gem:

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"Being on a set fund, I couldn't eat the way I was used to eating," she said. "I couldn't afford all the good things I used to buy, like lean meats."

She used to buy locally grown grapes, plums and apples when they were in season, but it's rare if she can afford a red pepper at $1 or $2 apiece. These days, she tends to buy frozen dinners when they're on sale at 10 for $10.

Read more: http://www.seattlepi.com/lifestyle/food/...p#ixzz1k0aOPp9q
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I know which TV dinners she is talking about, and yeah they are terrible. My question would be, why the flying fuck doesnt she buy a bag of rice or cornmeal, and why is she talking about peppers , which at 1$ are no doubt out of season, and the rainly cloudy Seattle weather is not conducive to growing peppers in the first place. I mean seriously.

Has she ever heard of cooking the fat off? Besides, fat doesnt make you fat - in fact you can get more calories for less cost and less food by using less lean meat. Its not how much volume you eat, its how many calories you intake. If this person took 30 minutes to educate herself, it is readily apparent she could save a lot of money. The fact that the writers of this article use these types of people as examples discredits their ability to make valid judgements on the subject.

Now on to the poor/fat linkage. Using the case of the women previously quoted, do you not think it possible , just a little, that she is pigging out because she has been stressed out?

The fact is, the poor/fat linkage does not withstand even mild critical scrutiny. Its like saying more ice cream is sold on the beach in summer, and more shark attacks occur on the beach in summer - therefore shark attacks are happening because people are selling ice cream.

I agree in principle with what you say, but when I tried to fit into Thrifty Food Plan budget, I couldn't. I normally cook all of my meals from scratch, avoid prepared meals and very aware of per-pound cost of any food I buy. Going with "economy" budget was only a question of changing menu to work with much cheaper ingredients. Couple things I noticed - spices, flavoring and oils that I normally use were clearly out of budget (I used them anyways); any fresh milk, cheese or dairy were out; most fresh vegetables were out of budget with exception of onions and carrots; any meat cuts that easy to work with was out of budget.

As to points you brought up about organic, way I read it was more of "it would be nice to have organic, but I can't with this budget" than "I tried to eat organic, but run over the budget". Frozen dinner comments - yes, I agree, but unless you are a good cook, that is your only choice.

Just to clarify - when I stated "I agree in principle" I wasn't talking about the poor/fat linkage, rather menu/food choices.

Hmmm, well need to seperate the arguments out. I think it is self evident, that fatness cannot be caused directly by poverty. Skinnyness, sure.

However, vitamin nutrition and obesity are not the same. Is there a possibility that someone could not get the USDA recommended vitamins/etc per day on a low budget? Possibly so, I cannot say authoritatively until I think that one through a little bit. But the simple answer to poverty/obesity is tied to stress. Eating is well documented mechanism for dealing with stress, and poverty also has a well documented correlation with lack of education.

In other words, it is perfectly logical that stressed out people who are frustrated and know little or nothing about dietary science, or simply dont care , could be readily tied to obesity. If it was high calorie food - eat half as much, simple answer.

Also, in regards to eating inexpensively but well - my personal recommendation is to examine what does happen to be inexpensive in your area, then cross reference it with ethnic dishes comprised of similar ingredients. In truth, most "ethnic" dishes came about because people with limited economic resources worked very hard at making what they did have more palatable. There is no one universal answer, but many clues can be found.

Personally, when I was working with less money in my own food budget the things I found invaluable were a rice cooker and a wok.

I will say part of the problem regarding actual nutrition, is how much nutrition has been bred out of many vegetables and leafy plants in favor of appearance and shelf life. But that is a different topic.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=soil-depletion-and-nutrition-loss

The link talks about the decline in the nutrients in veg/fruits.
Mostly due being breed to grow faster and bigger, which doesn't allow them to get the minerals in as great a quantity.
If you want to feed 300 million people something has to give.
It would be great if we all could grow our own food.

Thats an interesting take. Its an EarthTalk article, not an actual SciAm. I wouldn't doubt that it has some truth though. Mostly thought its attributed to the reasons I listed, though the ones cited in the article are certainly factors as well. ( especially pest resistance )

The bottom line though, is none are bred for nutrition.

One tip though for healthy eating - broccoli for some reason bucks the trend, and is generally your best bang for buck regarding good nutrition. For whatever reason, broccoli maintains stable levels of nutrition across genetics and growing methods.

I have an advantage here though, actually working in the industry.

That's because broccoli is awesome!

I still don't agree with this. Sure, poor master-chef with PhD in nutrition probably could, with a lot of self-discipline, maintain healthy diet and weight. Rest of us will eat until they are sated, and it takes a lot more calories to get full when you eat a diet full of processed food with artificial sweeteners. Why do you eat crappy diet of processed food? Well, for one because it is cheap and doesn't take time and skill to plan and prepare. When you are well-off, you don't need to compromise quality of your food nearly as much if you want convenience.

Saying, well just eat until you consume your daily ration of calories, is ignoring how human beings operate.

I will give you argument on stress and poverty, it is probably a factor.

Last but not least - I'd willing to be that people who cook most of their meals are clear minority in any demographic and income level.

No, I realize full well that this is what many people do. I am just saying that me being socially responsible for them when they choose to do it is quite unreasonable.

To me, saying I have a social responsibility to not let people who have less starve to death, or go malnourished makes sense. Saying I have a social responsibility to make their lives more convenient is a completely different argument.

Given economic and governmental realities - it is unfortunately quite possible right now that people be poor even though they are working and/or willing to work. This situation may not be their choice. How and what they eat, and how much attention they pay to their diet is however their choice. It is entirely up to them whether they spend $15 on cheap TV dinners and scarf until they think they are full - or take that $15 and buy a bag of rice, some less expensive cuts of/or types of meat and a couple heads of broccoli.

Plus some people even count generic/store brands as "unacceptable", when is most cases there is no real difference, in fact I prefer store brands for some things.

I have had times in my life where my food budget was similar to some of those people mentioned. I also have a very very high metabolism and need more calories than most people just to maintain weight. However, I never applied for food stamps. I did however put some thought into what I was doing. I figure if I can do it, on my own dime... then there is no reason that other people cannot also do it... especially if they are also on my dime. The bottom line is I am not expecting anything from anyone else, that I do not expect from myself.

Yes, its not your social responsibility, but you can save 10% on food stamp budget making your point all while double your medicare budget to treat obesity and related effects.

Generally speaking, social programs are cheaper than incarceration and education is cheaper than social programs. Right now as a society we are cutting down social programs and education, well we will pay more than that in increased incarceration costs.