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Helemoto #96631 12/18/11 04:55 PM
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Just to be clear, you're refusing to refute that Bill Ayers is/was a terrorist?


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Kaotic #96636 12/18/11 10:07 PM
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Kaotic, can you see Russia from your backyard?


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Sini #96638 12/18/11 10:18 PM
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A) Guilt by association is fairly weak attack.

B) NY Times

Quote:
A review of records of the schools project and interviews with a dozen people who know both men, suggest that Mr. Obama, 47, has played down his contacts with Mr. Ayers, 63. But the two men do not appear to have been close. Nor has Mr. Obama ever expressed sympathy for the radical views and actions of Mr. Ayers, whom he has called “somebody who engaged in detestable acts 40 years ago, when I was 8.”


C) Bill Ayers was never charged or convicted of any weapons charges, bombings or weapons charges. While I agree, guy sounds like a radical, I presume he is innocent of anything but lots of hot air until proven guilty in a court of law.


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Sini #96646 12/19/11 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted By: sinij

C) Bill Ayers was never charged or convicted of any weapons charges, bombings or weapons charges. While I agree, guy sounds like a radical, I presume he is innocent of anything but lots of hot air until proven guilty in a court of law.
So by your logic we had no business going after Osama Bin Laden since he didn't fly a plane into a building.
Originally Posted By: sinij
Kaotic, can you see Russia from your backyard?
Nope, I also don't live in Alaska where there are places that you can see Russia from. Obviously she was using a figure of speech to indicate that she was responsible for territory that bordered one of our, formerly, fiercest enemies.
Originally Posted By: Bill Ayers
These bombings were carried out by the Weather Underground: -To retaliate for the most savage criminal attacks against Black and Third world peoples, especially by the police apparatus...
Originally Posted By: Bill Ayers
We are a guerrilla organization. We are communist women and men, underground in the United States for more than four years. We are deeply affected by the historic events of our time in the struggle against U.S. imperialism.
Our intention is to disrupt the empire, to incapacitate it, to put pressure on the cracks, to make it hard to carry out its bloody functioning against the people of the world, to join the world struggle, to attack from the inside.
More from the Weather Underground
Originally Posted By: Weather Underground Meeting
I bought up the subject of what's going to happen after we take over the government. We, we become responsible, then, for administrating, you know, 250 million people.

And there was no answers. No one had given any thought to economics; how are you going to clothe and feed these people.

The only thing that I could get, was that they expected that the Cubans and the North Vietnamese and Chinese and the Russians would all want to occupy different portions of the United States.

They also believed that their immediate responsibility would be to protect against what they called the counter-revolution. And they felt that this counter-revolution could best be guarded against by creating and establishing re-education centers in the southwest, where we would take all the people who needed to be re-educated into the new way of thinking and teach them... how things were going to be.

I asked, well, what's going to happen to those people that we can't re-educate; that are die-hard capitalists. And the reply was that they'd have to be eliminated. And when I pursued this further, they estimated that they would have to eliminate 25 million people in these re-education centers. And when I say eliminate, I mean kill. 25 million people.

I want you to imagine sitting in a room with 25 people, most of which have graduate degrees from Columbia and other well known educational centers, and hear them figuring out the logistics for the elimination of 25 million people.

And they were dead serious.


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Kaotic #96653 12/19/11 02:43 PM
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Back to thread - Ayers issue is perfect example of a smear campaign, and Kaotic posts are fairly representative of smear tactics. Guilt by association, while weak attack on intellectual level, can be used to shape public opinion. When used, it attempts to put opponent into indefensible position or redefine their arguments into something that could be attacked. In this case, Anyers smear backfired for Palin, but that "backfire" paraded in media wasn't an actual smear against Palin, rather consequences of trying to use one.

Here is another example of similar tactic:

Kaotic, you accusing president of terrorism is unpatriotic and borderline on treason. Why do you hate America just like all these terrorists?

Last edited by sinij; 12/19/11 06:31 PM.

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Helemoto #96677 12/19/11 10:20 PM
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You completely avoided the issue. Palin wasn't the one making the connection between Barry and Ayers, that was the newscaster defending Barry against the facts. Consequently, the media's attack against Palin was nothing like what you suggest since the premise you suppose, that the media was retaliating for Palin's poor associative assumptions, is wrong. Try again.

As for my actions being treasonous, if that were true, based on the way the previous administration was excoriated in every single type of media, I don't think I have anything to worry about unless I'm actually right and the president really is a Marxist.

So you see, smears only work if the other side is afraid to stand up or not allowed to be heard.

As far as your assertion that guilt by association is in itself a smear tactic, I feel compelled to respond that who you choose as your friends is a direct reflection of who you are.

Additionally, I didn't accuse the president of being a terrorist. I said that one of his friends is/was a terrorist. None of my friends are terrorists. Are yours?

Last edited by Kaotic; 12/19/11 10:24 PM.

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Helemoto #96679 12/19/11 11:07 PM
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<- Terrorist


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Originally Posted By: Donkleaps
<- Terrorist


Apparently some of my friends are terrorist. I am so going to indefinite detention and gitmo.


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Kaotic #96685 12/20/11 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted By: Kaotic
You completely avoided the issue. Palin wasn't the one making the connection between Barry and Ayers, that was the newscaster defending Barry against the facts. Consequently, the media's attack against Palin was nothing like what you suggest since the premise you suppose, that the media was retaliating for Palin's poor associative assumptions, is wrong.


This is not what actually happened. I already described how I see the situation, so agreed to disagree on basic chain of events that are on the record.

Quote:
So you see, smears only work if the other side is afraid to stand up or not allowed to be heard.


Smears work if you repeat them often and loud enough, you filthy terrorist.

Last edited by sinij; 12/20/11 08:28 AM.

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Helemoto #96689 12/20/11 09:17 AM
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<-Darwinist


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