The KGB Oracle Forums General Public Discussion (SPECIAL ACCESS) KGB Political Debate Central VOTE FOR RICK PERRY!! NO SERIOUSLY!

guess ill be paying a fine

translated from portugues to english, so things maybe writed wrong:

The number of Americans living below the poverty line has reached the record figure of 46.2 million people in 2010, a time when the U.S. economy trying to emerge from recession, the federal government reported Tuesday.

In a report highlighting the enormous economic challenge faced by the U.S. president, Barack Obama, Congress and the country, the Census Bureau said that the national poverty rate rose for the third consecutive year. The increase was 0.8% points to 15.1% of the population. In 2009, 43.6 million were living in poverty.

The report says the number of poor in the country is the largest since the federal agency began publishing estimates of poverty, 52 years ago. The rate of depletion is the highest since 1993.

The income of U.S. homes fell 2.3%, from U.S. $ 49,445 per year, and the number of Americans without health insurance is around 50 million.

The deteriorating U.S. economy indicators shown in the Census probably worsened in 2011, as economic growth declined, unemployment has remained stagnant over 9% and increased fears of a recession increased.

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Well, first of all - the reason we are IN this situation is because of Federal Govt meddling with the markets, money, and cronyism/regulation. Reverse the trend of Govt destroying our middle class and the numbers you cite will be a lot smaller.

Secondly, they may not have "insurance" but they already receive subsidized health care in many cases from Medicaid or State programs.

Govt meddling in health care has encouraged the charities to move on, before the govt meddling was so intrusive there used to be all sorts of church hospitals and doctors, Shriners hospitals, etc. If the Federal govt took less of a role, we would see all those come back.

Mithus let me tell you a personal story of mine. I had emergency surgery about 8 years ago. I didn't have health insurance because I was only working as a temporary employee. I ended up having to stay a week in the hospital. The bill was a little over $10,000 dollars. A lady came into my room asking about my insurance. This was after my surgery. So she suggested medicade, I refused.

So after I got out of the hospital and received the bill I realized I was going to need some help. My aunt works in a doctors offcie and told me that all hospitals have funds specifically given by donations to help people with no insurance. I called and they told me I made more than the normal person with no insurance. They still pro-rated it and knocked off a little over $3,000 from my bill. I made a lot less than I do now, I had to much going on financially. So I paid the bill off in 18 months I realize not everyone has the money to even do that. But things like that fund that knocked some $$ off my bill are there. If I had taken the medicade I may have walked away with paying little to nothiung. It was my choice to not go that route and at least paid as much as I did to pay it off. That's called responsibilty. And that doesn't hurt anyone to have take on responsibilty. A lot of people take advantage of willingness to help them. I think giving people something without having something at stake, causes laziness in a lot of them. I'm not saying that true for everyone, and having the programs that we do have to help people is a good thing. But that's as far as our government should be involved.

You guys argue strongly that the government can not be involved in crucial issues, you if you allow your government care about security, education, why not about health care for those 50 million, I also understand that you do not want be forced to pay anything that you already pay in taxes for the government.

Not everyone has the political awareness and education that you have, or resources that you have.
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Brazil - Wiki
The Brazilian health system is composed of a large, public, government managed system, the SUS (Sistema Único de Saúde) , which serves the majority of the population, and a private sector, managed by health insurance funds and private entrepreneurs.

The public health system, SUS, was established in 1988 by the Brazilian Constitution, and sits on 3 basic principles of universality, comprehensiveness and equity. Universality states that all citizens must have access to health care services, without any form of discrimination, regarding skin color, income, social status, gender or any other variable.

ps.
I do not use the public system, I pay for a private medical insurance.

The thing is, I do not like it when people think of things in terms of "rights" when it comes to receiving commercial services.

I also would term it in terms of the "scope of the problem". You talk about security, well if another nation attacks us and we have to goto war... then that is a true national problem. It requires the entire country to get on board with taxes and/or military service to solve that problem.

But something like health care is a "personal problem".

The important difference is which LEVEL of govt should be addressing the problem. Generally speaking, the larger the program/bureaucracy the less responsive it is and the worse it is run. Using the Military as an example that the Federal govt can run something well only works if you were impose military discipline on the rest of the Washington bureaucrats... which when I think about it, actually invokes some pretty appealing mental imagery. I imagine most Washington bureaucrat types would benefit immensely from getting chewed out by a drill sergeant and made to clean latrines with a toothbrush. But anyhow.

The point is the Founders of the USA knew that big government on a federal level was bad. Some things, like the Post and the Military needed to be addressed by the Feds because they addressed issues only a Federal Govt could properly address.

The rest of governance was supposed to be left to the States. So in terms of what is allowed, this is the level of government where things like Education and Health need to happen. Not that I think even a State govt should have a huge program, or try to run the health care system... but implementing those types of programs locally is much more effective, and much more Constitutional.

Part of the problem, is since the Federal govt can print as much money as it wants... it starts to think that the money supply in unlimited. The problem with this is, there is most certainly a limit as to how far this can be taken... the problem is noone knows exactly how far that is. It will work, until it simply doesnt anymore.... and then we will all be screwed.

So this illusion of unlimited money starts getting people thinking in serious terms that govt can and should do any and everything. But doing that, will just screw us all in the end. In addition to objecting having more of our hard earned money taken, many of us worry that liberals who want to "save the world" with other peoples money are going to literally destroy the economy of this country. We will end up like Greece. Then all of us will be poor and without health care...

Bottom Line The people didnt want Obama-Care !!

Tip:

Anyone trying to get elected will say and do anything to get there. Regardless of their party alignment.

I gave the hell up on our political system long ago. I could
give a damn who gets elected now. Politicians are like Pepsi vs
Coke. They do their damndest to convince you they are better than
the other choice, but they are essentially the same crap that will
end up killing you.

My brother had a seizure in the dentist office and got rushed to emergency in San Jose California. Was in for 3 days and had all kinds of tests. The bill was $79,000. If he didnt have insurance, he would be FUCKED. This is what you guys want to happen to people when they get sick.

LOOK EVERYONE!! ITS WOLFGANG AND PRISMS DREAM COME TRUE (I think that's Wolfgang pushing the wheelchair:

Jet, in all seriousness I know you have analytical skills. You should seriously apply them to figure out WHY the bill was that high. Flowchart it out, at least in your head. Keep emotion out of it, just plot out the myriad cause-effect relationships that result in that situation. Make sure you go back at least four degrees.

Then figure out how the situation described can be fixed.

Once you do that, come see me for your new red armband and tinfoil cap uniform.