The KGB Oracle Forums General Public Discussion (PUBLIC) The Pub Mosque

It was more of a comment to kaotic then you.

This will give you an idea how much we as a moralless society as Kaotic put it gives.

http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm/bay/content.view/cpid/736/print/1.htm

This proves how we suck.

No I know Helemoto, I wasn't really trying to direct the comment but more to state my personal thoughts on how someone who is in need thinks.

Yes understand tons of money and time is given but it is a drop in the bucket compared to what could be done if people stopped fighting and trying to be the biggest on the block. The uglu fact of the matter is that hunger, poverty, homelesness, and orphaness with out help still exists, and exists in the millions and the resources are available within the religions of the world to fix it but yet they divert so much of their money and time to fighting each other that they can't solve the problem. As a matter of fact the hatred and discrmination that they create worsens the problem. Now if you want call me ingnorant for thaat it's your right but it doesn;t change the facts. The fact is that the worls religions spend billions of dollars on temples, mosques, and millions of hours of time teach hatered of other religions and cultures that if redirected could help millions of people in need. The minute you say something about it they call you ignorant and say we give millions every year.

to show how indemic the problem that Drakiis is talkin about is the government spent $570 million dollars on programs to help people liveing in poverty on 2007. In 2007 there were aprox. 57 million people in America living below the poverty line. Throwing money at the problem and hoping it will go away is not the answer.

The answer to poverty lies in the govt doing less, not more.

Govt, fundamentally, produces nothing. It simply uses force of arms to redistribute productivity. In some cases this is necessary, as money and goods are needed to form a common defense and providing a common infrastructure seems to have worked out pretty well.

To much meddling though, and govt starts unduly interfering with the lives and commerce of those who produce. It is self-evident that a society with abundance of productivity affords greater opportunity to those in poverty to find a way out of poverty. Where productivity is scarce, there is stiffer competition for resources ergo the opportunities to escape poverty are smaller.

I am a catholic and I don't hear my religious leaders telling me to go out and hate others based on their religion. I hear them say go out and help more, give more you greedy bastards.

StValentines comment that the religions of the world fight each other and waste money on their religious buildings. They have and need the buildings, or do you expect them to work out of tents.

Last I looked the only religions fighting each other are the Jews and muslims with the Jews defending themselves.

We have been a country for 234 years. Why is it our fault most of the world just discovered indoor plumbing. We are the or were the richest country in the world and we give the most to the world not just in money or time spent helping the less fortunate. The world is a better place with us in it then without us. When people down grade us I get pissed.

Ronald Reagan said "America is a shining city upon a hill whose beacon light guides freedom-loving people everywhere."
This still holds true,people still flock here.

You are putting your anger to religion saying they don't help enough. Your anger should be put to its proper place GOVERNMENTS. They are the ones that fuck shit up.

However our society has changed from producing to consuming and taking advantage of systems that are in place to help those who really need it, this in turn has made those systems more demanding and paranoid or suspicious of those who ask for the assistance which in turn makes it very difficult if not impossible for those in need to receive assistance that is also available to those who drain the system to provide them extra when they may not really need it, not to mention the frivolous spending our governments and assistant programs do outside of offering help, like flying their top employees first class, or bailing out companies who should shoulder their own economic burdens if they expect the rest of the populous to do so.

This is all win, I agree with RR, he did say it best we are a "shining city" there are roles in the global community that each nation will inevitably fall into, and America will undoubtedly become the worlds police force, of course with other nations adding additional assistance. Our country is built on the industrial military complex of Roman Empire design whether we want to admit it or not. There are distinct advantages and disadvantages to that, but sufficed to say Organized religion has it's down side but is not to fully blame.

People are able to take advantage of the system by virtue of the fact that there IS a system. What did folks in need do before there was welfare? The community helped them. Why does the community not help them now? Two reasons, first we don't know they are in need because we don't spend time in our communities any more. How many of you even know all of your immediate neighbors? I only know my in passing. Second, the need isn't apparent because its being addressed by the system.

Proponents of the welfare system will say that "the system is necessary because people need help." Opponents say that "the system encourages sloth and kills motivation to excel." I'm one of the latter.


I'm not sure what beef you have with religion but your painting with an awfully broad brush here. Helemoto is right. I can only name two religions off the top of my head that are fighting "holy wars" or any kind of propaganda war right now. Can you find individuals within a religion to spout off just about anything you want to hear to justify your stance? Of course you can, just as you can find tree huggers who will say that all humans should die. Equally ridiculous.

I was raised by a Catholic mother and a Southern Baptist father. I've seen both of these religions up close and personal and I can tell you beyond a shadow of a doubt that they are not fighting with each other, nor do they spend money on some perceived war between them.

I've wrestled long and hard with the mega churches that you see spread around, that appear to spend millions of dollars on fancy buildings. I still think they are mostly unnecessary, but I have met the people who support those churches and I've found that they really believe the best way to reach the most people is the "if you build it they will come" mentality. Very few of these parishioners have any kind of chip on their shoulders because they "go to the biggest church in town." Most of them are very humble people who just want to help. And help they do. Our local "mega church" donates literally MILLIONS of dollars in money and in time each year to help the local community and folks abroad. That's no small feat for a church in a town of only 60,000 people, especially when you figure that there are dozens of other churches competing for membership.

Now, you may use Rome as your argument for how much churches spend, but have you considered how much money the Catholic church gives and how many employees of that church eat, sleep and breathe for no reason other than to help their fellow man? I spent some time at a Catholic high school and was taught by many nuns. Sometimes they were just like the stories you've heard or experienced, but after growing up I'm able to look back and see that the character they were trying to instill in me is the same character that motivates folks to be generous and kind. Have you also considered how many people are moved to donate or devote their lives to the service of others simply by visiting that amazing place? Its also worth noting that the money for that particular place isn't recent money, rather it has taken centuries to make it what it is today.


First, if they don't spend money in what amounts to advertising they won't have a congregation to donate money. Ever heard the term "you have to spend money to make money"? It works the same for religions.

I don't know where you're getting your facts but I've NEVER been taught, by either my Catholic or Baptist upbringing that I should hate folks of other religions. I have heard some Baptists say that Catholics are going to hell for their beliefs but that wasn't motivated by hatred. It was motivated by love and caring. They genuinely believed that in their ignorance and rather than hate them for it, want to convert them and bring the "heathens" over to their beliefs. No killing involved, only some potentially heated debate.

I think the overarching truth that you're missing here is that all of these religious organizations are peopled by humans, and humans by nature tend to be greedy and selfish. Its a necessary wiring mechanism that promotes survival. Most of us though, try very hard to quash that survival mechanism and help our fellow man. Sometimes we fail. Sometimes we fail really badly. But until you've lived a life whereby you live only to serve others and give away everything you have for the betterment of your fellows then I don't think you have earned the right to criticize those who do.

I am truelly sorry if I offended anyone that was not my intent at all. I simply wanted to say that some of the energy and resources could be redirected.