The KGB Oracle Forums General Public Discussion (PUBLIC) The Pub So... In light of recent developments....

Here is a essay by an actual security expert on wholesale data mining and its effectivness. Take a gander.

http://www.schneier.com/essay-108.html

The government keeping secrets is a good thing. I dont want to know all the dirty little things they do that allow me to go to the gas station to buy cheap fuel(historically it is cheaper then 1960) or that mars bar I hvae been craving or go to the strippers to waste my money.
BTW our government has had secrets since the day if became a country. Let them wire tap away if it keeps my kids safe and is not taking my rights away (which it has not). Tell me one way i am losing my rights and you may get me on yourside.

As for the data mining if as you say they dont want to be found then they have to live in the mountains using pony express to keep off the radar.

Did you hear of able danger they are the guys that data mined and found the 9/11 fuckers. Only reason it didnt help was they got stonewall by some asshole that didnt think it was a problem. Data mining may be costly and not very effective but with future technolgy and info of past usagae it will get better. Its a new and the bugs have to be worked out. And if they did get good info to stop an attack i doubt it would be public info for security reasons

Ok sorry about the clinton thing

for the rush haters
Rush Limbaugh made a better case against TIA a week after 9/11.
We now know a huge amount about the hijackers. We see a pattern.
If we had all that data the day before the hijacks, we could see a pattern,
but we COULD NOT MAKE AN ARREST.
They made phone calls, but they likely did not talk about plans.
They moved kids and money, but that is not illeagal.
They took flight lessons, but nothing wrong with that.
The best they could do, would have been to deport several of them.
Those deportations can take a loooooonnnngg time. (Ask Sami Al Arian)
The ACLU would have come to thier defence.
And they would not have been kept in jail while waiting.
So, gathering all that info to stop terror would not have stopped terror.
However, all this info gathering is good for catching drug dealers.
It is also useful if an agent wants to stalk some cute girl.

Actually Republicans tend to favor less involved gov.t, Bishop.

There is a big difference between a govt having secrets, and a govt being secretive. There is yet again a difference between a government being secretive, and a government being secretive about illegal activity.

Your also mistaken if you think that wholesale wiretapping isnt infringing upon your rights. Just because you are not directly feeling the effects yet, does not mean that it has no effect, or that it wont soon lead to worse infractions.

But, I guess we are just becoming a society where people will happily give up liberty for a false sense of security.

If the trend continues, and at this point I dont see anything able to stop it- we will soon have neither.

WHATS THE FIRST SIGN OF YOU GETTING THE BIRD FLU

YOU JUMP ON YOUR CAR AND SHIT ON YOUR WINDSHIELD

With respect to the first article, I would imagine that is it the equivalent of the warrently wiretaps of phone conversations the NSA is doing (legally), between known Al Quaida people overseas and their operatives in the US. If an email comes in from a known AQ guy, the NSA intercepts the message and analyzes it. Damn fine thing it is, too.

With respect to the second one, I agree with Helemoto. The President is the ultimate classifying authority, and can declassify information as he see's fit. Here
is a Washington Post editorial that discusses that far from being a politically motivated, President Bushs actions were entirely proper. They make a good argument.

As far as Iran is concerned, we are currently busy in both Iraq and Afghanistan, not to mention Central/South America, Yemen, Ethiopia, the Phillipines, Mongolia, to mention only a few (see Robert Kaplan's excellent book, 'Imperial Grunts' to find out what is going on in all those places, and elsewhere). Given the demands currently on US armed forces, it's not surprising that at this time, we aren't invading Iran. However, that doesn't mean that nothing is being done. Currently, things are being conducted diplomatically, just as things were done prior to the start of the second Iraq war. It is premature to call the matter closed.

Always glad to relay information and clear up misunderstandings. Let me know if you are confused about other little things that are bothering you...

Your saying that secret installations at every metropolitan backbone are required to listen in legally on overseas conversation?

Dont think so. Targeted eavesdropping was taking place long before this period, and certainly didnt need Narus STA 6400's on every switching station. The NSA has probably had listening equipment at the stations that transport overseas for some time. They also tap into oceanic fiber lines via submarine. Theres no need to build a secret listening station in friggin Iowa to listen in on Al Queda overseas.



I'll read the article that argues it was a proper decision tommorow. I'll give you the benifit of the doubt here until I get time to look it over.

And as for the last, are you seriously going to make an argument that invading Iraq was a good idea, despite the fact that if we had not, we would be in a much better position diplomatically and militarily to do something about Iran? I doubt they would have had the guts, had we not mired ourselves in Iraq.

The point I was making is that unnecesarry wars havent helped our position in dealing with the real problems. This would be the President's decision, and he is the one accountable.


"Let me know if you are confused about other little things that are bothering you..."

Unfortunatly in order to clear up "misunderstandings" and allieviate confusion, something relevant is usually required.

I'm not saying your principles of "hunt the bad guys and kill them" are wrong Owain, far from it. But I really do think you give our current leadership far to much credit, both in the areas of competance and intent.

Intresting Stuff. - Nothing is secure.

How do you play the game you live? ~syev