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Many of you probably don't know me, and that's totally fine. I joined KGB back during the SB days, and loved every minute of it. Since then I've created two guilds in EQ (one of which was a raiding guild), but have also been lurking here again for awhile.

When I joined KGB I was really glad to see it was a cross-game guild, because I really wanted to find a guild I could play with through the various ups and downs of the industry, as old games faded and new games were born. It's obvious this guild was set up to be just that. I had a hard time initially sticking to that due to the changes in the industry and how they didn't fit with what I thought was 'a good game'.

Anyway...now it seems Jet (and probably others) has noticed the trend in this guild where vets seem to have become very independent of the guild, and how playstyles of the vets have not been able to converge in quite some time. This is to be expected really.

I think a lot of it has to do with so many people 'living in the past'. I used to be the same way for a very long time.

First let's start with gaming rigs. Back in the day, UO took a beastly machine and a good connection to play. It took this kind of purchase to play in the newest game of that time. Nothing has changed that. If you want to really move into the modern MMO industry and play the new games coming out, you'll have to keep shelling out a boatload every 3 years or so to keep up. There's no free ride, just like there wasn't a free ride 10 years ago. Sure there are free games out there, same with the situation when UO was prime. You could have played a free text MUD on your broken down 386 and a 2400 baud modem. Instead you decided to buy a beefy machine and a 56k modem to play a game with a monthly fee. Do it again!

As far as gameplay, most of us started our MMO careers with UO, and it was an awesome, awesome game in its prime. It was and still is a game left unmatched in the industry.

The problem really is the industry has left the UO Model of game design, and it might never return. Games have evolved a lot since then. The most obvious change being raiding and gearing. What hasn't changed as easily are the attitudes and desires of UO vets. They seem to shun any MMO which isn't a lot like UO: fast leveling, loot on death, items mean nothing, no death penalty, no raiding. Reality is, games are just not built this way anymore.

I used to be like the other UO vets I've seen: if a game couldn't live up to a handful of features UO had, I wouldn't even consider it. Well times change, and so must players. Now I don't try so hard to find the differences between UO and whatever new game comes out; instead I focus in more on the features of the game I do like, and how long I think it might keep my and others' interest. I focus on aspects of gameplay I know I enjoy over others, but if a game doesn't have 'feature x' I don't write it off immediately, like I used to do.

Take WoW for example. I loathed the thought of this game, with its easy death penalty and shallow gameplay. But then I tried it, and instead focused on the things that are really fun about the game: combat, the talent tree, crafting (sorta), and eventually raiding. I'm having a blast in that game now, where as before I was floundering just to find a game I could play for more than ten minutes without being totally bored (sorry EVE).

You know, people here and lots of other people harp on leveling and item-centric gaming, but it's here to stay. Nothing is going to change that. (Even UO had leveling because skilling up in something in effect was like gaining a level.) When we all first started playing, it took a LONG time to get a 7xGM character. Nobody can deny that fact. And yes after we were multi-year vets we could cut that time investment down to just a couple weeks or a few days or whatever. The same can be said of almost every game out there really. But there is no denying that just about everyone loved that initial drive to 7xGM. It was exciting to see your character grow in ability and power. With each step up in power to see a new part of the game, etc. It's the same in every game for the first time around.

The same can be said about Raiding. Raiding is here to stay. For at least a long while now, mainstream games will have raiding. From what I have lurked on the forums, most people here don't seem to like raiding. Perfectly ok. The problem in most games is if you aren't raiding and there's no in-game reason to PvP, the game ends when you hit max level?

I have a hard time understanding PvPing just for PvPs sake. It's just a block I have I guess, so maybe not really applicable. One thing to think about though is there is a large majority of current mmo gamers who do like raiding and also pvping. PvP guilds can have a lot of fun, but I think there are a lot of people who play nowdays who would like to do PvP and Raiding. No reason to limit yourself to just one. And with that raid gear, you can now better defend or attack. That sounds pretty cool to me actually. Now you can't just be a good pvper to be a top-teir guild, you have to be good at raiding too. Adds more challenge.

Now I'm not really trying to argue about whether or not leveling a character or raiding is 'fun' or 'not fun'. Arguing against gameplay preference is futile because people are just different, and that is actually a really good thing. I think a game which caters to several different playstyles is actually vastly superior to a game which does not. UO is the prime example.

Let's face it; PvP is so much more fun when there's something to fight over. If you take out crafters and PvEing, what's left to fight for? In UO, you guys fought for the crafter or PvEer: anti-PKing. You had a cause. In SB, we fought for the right to our farming area and our city. We fought against those who would destroy our city and take our farm areas. That's what made that game awesome. If we have nothing to fight over, what's the point of PvP really? Personally, that kind of PvP gets boring really fast. Even then, I still like to have different things to do because only having one thing to do gets old too: raiding, pvp, crafting, etc. They all get boring just by themselves, IMO. Mix and match for the win.

But to really get back to the point: this guild is slowly deteriorating the longer it stays disconnected from the gaming community. We have no avenue to add members to the guild when we have no presence in any game. Members are sure to leave, but you have no way to replenish them. At that point it seems pretty obvious you will need to maintain at least one major presence in some major game. Some way to let the gaming world know we're out there. Sure there will be small lapses, and some members will move on during those periods, but you must sustain a presence as best as possible. Having more than one big presence is great, but at least one is almost mandatory.

Now each presence will probably not start out with a ton of KGBers, but KGBers will be added as KGB makes itself known in each new game. You have to recruit just like it's a brand new guild, e.g. Shadowbane. You'll get new KGBers to refill the ranks of those who left at the end of previous presences.

Which then begs the question, who stays? From what I've seen so far, it seems like those who stick around in-between games are those who will lead the stab into the next game. Lemmings leave; leaders don't follow the crowds and so they stay. Even now KGB has enough leadership quality people to make a good stab at any major title out there right now; we just lack the focus and togetherness to make it happen.

Quite possibly, a few will make that stab, picking up the reins, and will then bring in the next wave of KGB. While those who don't like every aspect of the new game or who won't fork out what it takes to play MMOs will be left to their independent gaming experiences altogether. It sounds like it might be shaping up that way with Vanguard. Either way I don't see any other way to keep this guild vibrant without a hardcore push into a new game.

I said I didn't like Vanguard initially, but I'll play it if we make an official stand there. Sure the level grind can be hard on some, raiding on others, but just thinking about KGB:SB and our plight there and the tension etc, that alone ups my guestimation on the fun level dramatically. Fighting to keep the bad guys out of our guild hall? Fighting over crafting resources or dungeon bosses?! Hell yes!!! 'Hey Nether some craptard is trying to PK me at my house!' 'I'm on my way!' Let's do it! It's like UO, SB, and even some new PvP reasons all rolled into one!

Again, a Hell Yes!

Well written Nether, and food for though.

I think you are right on, and I should encourage the membership to create official factions in the games they are playing. Even if there is only a handful.

The only problem I see is that a small organization in many games is a big disadvantage. Lets keep the conversation going and try to figure out what the best move here is.

I think getting something official is a MUST though for the reasons you broght up.

Netervoid

That is one of the very best posts that I have had the pleasure of reading on the Oracle in a very long time. It pretty much says it all.

Yeah I definitely agree with Owain and Jet. You're right, I don't know you personally, I've seen you around the forums a bit, but that in no way changes the fact that that was an excellent post. You're right, getting some factions going will definitely be a step in the right direction, but like I said before, and like you said just now, if a bunch of KGB are playing together, a faction should be formed, I don't think we should unanimously decide to start one and all be forced to join on the bandwagon or something.

Well what do we have going right now?

Vanguard
Shadowbane
EVE
WoW
and UO?

EVE, WoW, UO, and now SB have open factions going, whether or not they're impressive factions is another story...

Starting a faction is pretty easy, unless it's Shadowbane, then Elph will tell you to go to hell.

You raise interest in the game, say "Hey, I want a closed faction here!" Then you'll be asked who would lead, and you can either nominate someone or propose that you'll lead it yourself. There's some decision making on the federal end, a High Chancellor is appointed, then he/she is responsible to appoint the rest of the officers according to the constitution. If officers are appointed in the appropriate amount of time, your faction is formed!

This is outlined clearly in the KGB Articles of Confederation, Section 4. We have this down to a science:

Quote:

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Section 4:
FACTION CREATION AND MAINTAINING OFFICE
Clause 1:The High King/High Queen shall appoint the High Chancellor of a newly formed faction
Clause 2: The appointed High Chancellor will have 7 days to appoint the other key positions in his or her faction. A High Chancellor would need to appoint a Chancellor and a Vice Chancellor, as well as a Commanding General (G5). Failure to complete this duty would result in the required resignation of the High Chancellor and the process would begin again.
Clause 3: Every 60 days, the High King/High Queen, with the support of Federal Officers, would hold a vote of confidence (1st of every other month). Citizens involved in a specific faction would be required to vote for or against confidence in the current Faction leadership. A Citizen should not vote regarding factions they are NOT involved in. Majority rules. If the current High Chancellor is approved by the membership, then they and their cabinet would remain in office, if voted against, the High King/High Queen would appoint a new High Chancellor.
Clause 4: Any full member of any faction may call for an election at anytime. This is accomplished by making a petition that at least 50% of the active membership of the said faction signs. At that time, the High King/High Queen would hold an election within 10 days of the submission of such a petition.
Clause 5: Elections will be administered by the Prime Ministers under the supervision of the High King/High Queen, and Prime Ministers. Elections will occur on the 1st of every other month.

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It has nothing to do with Shadowbane the game even though we've been there 500 times..and it never sticks around. You want to create a faction that is "closed" with stipulations to bend the constitution and that is where I put my foot down and is in no way good for KGB
Nethers post was good but I thought it was poor taste to point the fingers and the vets in KGB because that isn't how it is at all.

I would love to see an offcial faction if led by the right people. I am all open for letting a strong and level individual to leading our next faction but we all know that there are certain KGB here who just couldn't cut it no matter how well they would mean. Sometimes people's attitudes and impulse can get them into trouble which would not make them a good leader.

Elph, I was just picking on you. :P

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