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Sini #146946 10/13/21 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Sini
Originally Posted by JetStar
My argument was your comparison to Trump and the way you characterized it. How can you compare anything Biden is doing to trying to overthrow our democracy.

This is what called a red herring - when the core of my argument is about Biden Administration's perfomance and you respond with a logical equivalent of "But Hitler!".

I simply called you out for an unfair comparison that you refuse to admit. Clearly the public evidence shows that Trump spawned and encouraged the January 6th coup attempt. Case in point:

PBS FRONTLINE: American Insurrection

We are facing one of the most divisive times in our history and I believe our Democracy is at risk. I will say it again, comparing anything Biden has done to Trump and Trumpism is laughable.

With that said, EVERYONE should be open to scrutiny and held responsible for their decisions and actions. This includes Biden. I am all for keeping the pressure up to encourage better decisions.


Last edited by JetStar; 10/13/21 10:40 AM.

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JetStar #146950 10/13/21 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by JetStar
I will say it again, comparing anything Biden has done to Trump and Trumpism is laughable.

It isn't. You can't distil Trump's administration to a single event and dismiss all further comparisons as invalid. You could argue that a single event would define Trump's legacy, or that it expemplifies his conduct while in the office, but that not what you are saying. Essentially, your timeline of Trump Presidency is Inaguration - January 6 and nothing else. This reductive approach is absurd.

More so, my original point that I made in reply to Goriom is valid and appropriate:

Originally Posted by Sini
Your network hammered Trump for things he did, for things he didn't do, and for things he could have done. At least pretend to apply the same standard [of critical coverage] to Biden.

You finding such comparison too upsetting to consider does not invalidate it.


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Sini #146979 10/14/21 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Sini
Originally Posted by JetStar
I will say it again, comparing anything Biden has done to Trump and Trumpism is laughable.

It isn't. You can't distil Trump's administration to a single event and dismiss all further comparisons as invalid. You could argue that a single event would define Trump's legacy, or that it expemplifies his conduct while in the office, but that not what you are saying. Essentially, your timeline of Trump Presidency is Inaguration - January 6 and nothing else. This reductive approach is absurd.

More so, my original point that I made in reply to Goriom is valid and appropriate:

Originally Posted by Sini
Your network hammered Trump for things he did, for things he didn't do, and for things he could have done. At least pretend to apply the same standard [of critical coverage] to Biden.

You finding such comparison too upsetting to consider does not invalidate it.

Let's talk about what is not debatable. His incompetent response to Covid 19 and consistent dishonesty around it and just about everything he is involved in has destroyed our economy in a comparable fashion to the great depression. 700,000 people matter.

How do you get past the way he has treated career military folks like Generals Mattis, Kelly, and McMaster. All of which have spoken out against him after they experienced his leadership and incompetence. Most obvious and terrible was how he treated and spoke about John Mccain, who as you know spent 8 years in prison being tortured for this country and would not accept release based on the fact that his father was an Admiral unless his fellow prisoners got the same treatment. In fact, Trump has a record for the number of staffers dismissed or left office. Also, a record number that have spoken out against him. This is unmatched in history. The full list is here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Trump_administration_dismissals_and_resignations

Honesty and Trust
https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...e-than-20000-false-or-misleading-claims/
FACT: The President has made over 20,000 false or misleading statements since he took office that is an average of 20+ claims a day. All of it is documented here. This is not opinion, but fact. https://www.washingtonpost.com/grap...ine_manual_2&itid=lk_inline_manual_2
It has a great search tool as well

FACT: The Trump administration’s response to the Covid 19 crisis was and is a disaster filled with blatant lies and terrible decisions. It’s all documented here:
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/07/trumps-lies-about-coronavirus/608647/

There are so many more reasons that I am not mentioning
Grab um by the pussy
Paying off women to hide affairs
The Ukraine phone call and impeachment
Asking to have the Special Council fired
Inability to stand up against Putin
Believing Putin regarding interference in the 2016 election over 8 US intelligence agencies
1. Central Intelligence Agency
2. Office of the Director of National Intelligence
3. F.B.I.
4. National Security Agency
5. Justice Department
6. Department of Homeland Security
7. House Intelligence Committee
8. Senate Intelligence Committee
Splitting up immigrant families
And so many more I cant count. Any questions?


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Sini #146980 10/14/21 09:06 AM
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More:

The voters, ballot workers, ballot watchers, elections workers and supervisors, elections security chief, Bill Barr, the media, and the courts from lower the appellate courts all the way to the supreme court cannot be trusted? Republican state officials and Trump appointed judges cannot be trusted.
But Trump is to be trusted?
In 1,372 days, President Trump has made 26,548 false or misleading claims
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/trump-claims-database/
Just in the first 27 days of August, the president made 1,506 false or misleading claims, or 56 a day. Some days were extraordinary: 189 claims (a record) on Aug. 11, 147 claims on Aug. 17, 113 claims on Aug. 20. The previous one-day record was 138 claims — on Nov. 5, 2018, the day before the midterm elections

My final word on Trump and alleged voter fraud.

Their premise is the voters, ballot workers, ballot watchers, elections workers and supervisors, elections security chief, Bill Barr, the media, and the courts from lower the appellate courts all the way to the supreme court cannot be trusted? Republican state officials and Trump appointed judges cannot be trusted?
But Trump is to be trusted?
In 1,372 days, President Trump has made 26,548 DOCUMENTED false or misleading claims
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/trump-claims-database/
Just in the first 27 days of August, the president made 1,506 false or misleading claims, or 56 a day. Some days were extraordinary: 189 claims (a record) on Aug. 11, 147 claims on Aug. 17, 113 claims on Aug. 20. The previous one-day record was 138 claims — on Nov. 5, 2018, the day before the midterm elections


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Sini #146981 10/14/21 09:08 AM
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More addressed to friends by me regarding Trump: IMPEACHMENT

Trump had a phone call with Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky and promised to deliver the money Congress had appropriated for Ukraine's protection against Russian military incursions. Then he added: "I would like you to do us a favor, though...."

While Lieutenant Colonel Alexander Vindman, who was on the call, told his superiors what he had heard, someone else filed a whistleblower complaint. That complaint went to Trump's own appointee at the Intelligence Community's Inspector General's office, Michael Atkinson. Atkinson agreed that the matter was both "credible" and "urgent" and that House and Senate Intelligence Committees must be informed, as required by law.

Atkinson followed the law, passing the information to the acting Director of National Intelligence, Joseph Maguire, on August 26. Maguire had only taken office ten days before, on August 16, after Trump's first DNI, Dan Coats, and Coates's second-in-command, Sue Gordon, both resigned. As an acting director, rather than a Senate-confirmed leader, Maguire served at the pleasure of the president.

Maguire was supposed to scour the whistleblower complaint of all classified information before forwarding to Congress by September 2, as the law required. But, instead, Maguire took the complaint to the Department of Justice, headed by Trump loyalist Attorney General William Barr. On his advice, Maguire decided not to turn over the information to Congress.

When that happened, Atkinson told the relevant congresspeople that the DNI was illegally withholding the complaint. On September 10, the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, Adam Schiff (D-CA) demanded that acting DNI Maguire produce it. Maguire refused, saying that the complaint was about someone not in the Intelligence Community, and therefore not covered by the whistleblower law. (The law does not give him the authority to refuse to deliver a complaint his IG considers credible and urgent. It says he MUST deliver it.)

On Friday, September 13, Schiff wrote a scathing letter to Maguire that brought this whole issue to public attention, noting that it sure seemed like Maguire might be protecting the president, and demanding Maguire follow the law and hand over the whistleblower complaint.

I happened to be scrolling through Twitter when Schiff's letter dropped, and I recognized it for what it was: a powerful member of Congress accusing a specific member of the Executive Branch of breaking a specific law... the sort of moment on which American history turns.

And that, my friends, is how these Letters began.

Since then, the House impeached Trump but the Senate exonerated him; Vindman is gone; Atkinson is gone; Maguire is gone. But as Trump has increasingly consolidated his power, Americans have woken up and taken to heart that democracy is not a spectator sport.

It has been a year by the calendar, but an eternity in the history of this nation.

Still, for all that I yearn for a time when we can go for days without worrying about what's going on in the White House, I am profoundly grateful to have discovered so many other people who care as deeply as I do about this country.


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Sini #146982 10/14/21 09:09 AM
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A past post from me regarding Trump supporters:

When you saw a man who had owned a fraudulent University, intent on scamming poor people, you thought "Fine." (https://www.usatoday.com/.../trump-university.../502387002/)
When you saw a man who had made it his business practice to stiff his creditors, you said, "Okay." (https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-hotel-paid-millions...)
That when you heard him proudly brag about his own history of sexual abuse, you said, "No problem." (https://abcnews.go.com/.../list-trumps-accusers.../story...)
When he made up stories about seeing Muslim-Americans in the thousands cheering the destruction of the World Trade Center, you said, "Not an issue." (https://www.washingtonpost.com/.../donald-trumps.../)
When you saw him brag that he could shoot a man on Fifth Avenue and you wouldn't care, you exclaimed, "He sure knows me." (https://www.usatoday.com/.../president-donald.../4073405002/)
When you heard him relating a story of an elderly guest of his country club, an 80-year old man, who fell off a stage and hit his head, to Trump replied: “‘Oh my God, that’s disgusting,’ and I turned away. I couldn’t—you know, he was right in front of me, and I turned away. I didn’t want to touch him. He was bleeding all over the place. And I felt terrible, because it was a beautiful white marble floor, and now it had changed color. Became very red.” You said, "That's cool!" (https://www.gq.com/story/donald-trump-howard-stern-story)
When you saw him mock the disabled, you thought it was the funniest thing you ever saw. (https://www.nbcnews.com/.../donald-trump-criticized-after...)
That when you heard him brag that he doesn't read books, you said, "Well, who has time?" (https://www.theatlantic.com/.../americas-first.../549794/)
When the Central Park Five were compensated as innocent men convicted of a crime they didn't commit, and he angrily said that they should still be in prison, you said, "That makes sense." (https://www.usatoday.com/.../what-trump-has.../1501321001/)
That when you heard him tell his supporters to beat up protesters and that he would hire attorneys, you thought, "Yes!" (https://www.latimes.com/.../la-na-trump-campaign-protests...)
When you heard him tell one rally to confiscate a man's coat before throwing him out into the freezing cold, you said, "What a great guy!" (https://www.independent.co.uk/.../donald-trump-orders...)
That you have watched the parade of neo-Nazis and white supremacists with whom he curries favor, while refusing to condemn outright Nazis, and you have said, "Thumbs up!" (https://www.theatlantic.com/.../why-cant-trump.../567320/)
That you hear him unable to talk to foreign dignitaries without insulting their countries and demanding that they praise his electoral win, you said, "That's the way I want my President to be." (https://www.huffpost.com/.../trump-insult-foreign...)
That you have watched him remove expertise from all layers of government in favor of people who make money off of eliminating protections in the industries they're supposed to be regulating and you have said, "What a genius!" (https://www.politico.com/.../138-trump-policy-changes...)
That you have heard him continue to profit from his businesses, in part by leveraging his position as President, to the point of overcharging the Secret Service for space in the properties he owns, and you have said, "That's smart!" (https://www.usnews.com/.../how-is-donald-trump-profiting...)
That you have heard him say that it was difficult to help Puerto Rico because it was in the middle of water and you have said, "That makes sense." (https://www.washingtonpost.com/.../the-very-big-ocean.../)
That you have seen him start fights with every country from Canada to New Zealand while praising Russia and quote, "falling in love" with the dictator of North Korea, and you have said, "That's statesmanship!" (https://www.cnn.com/.../donald-trump-dictators.../index.html)
That Trump separated children from their families and put them in cages, managed to lose track of 1500 kids, has opened a tent city incarceration camp in the desert in Texas - he explains that they’re just “animals” - and you say, “Well, OK then.” (https://www.nbcnews.com/.../more-5-400-children-split...)
That you have witnessed all the thousand and one other manifestations of corruption and low moral character and outright animalistic rudeness and contempt for you, the working American voter, and you still show up grinning and wearing your MAGA hats and threatening to beat up anybody who says otherwise. (https://www.americanprogress.org/.../confronting-cost.../)


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Sini #146984 10/14/21 09:11 AM
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From Republican George Conway:

"For Trump supporters, let me make one thing VERY clear!

For the record NO ONE is blaming the President for the virus. Let me repeat. Coronavirus is not Trump’s fault.
Here’s a detailed list of what we are blaming him for:

* Trump declined to use the World Health Organization’s test like other nations. Back in January, over a month before the first Co-vid19 case, the Chinese posted a new mysterious virus and within a week, Berlin virologists had produced the first diagnostic test. By the end of February, the WHO had shipped out tests to 60 countries. Oh, but not our government. We declined the test even as a temporary bridge until the CDC could create its own test. The question is why? We don’t know but what to look for is which pharmaceutical company eventually manufactures the test and who owns the stock. Keep tuned.

* In 2018 Trump fired Homeland Security Advisor Tom Bossart, whose job was to coordinate a response to global pandemics. He was not replaced.

* In 2018 Dr. Luciana Borio, the NSC director for medical and bio-defense preparedness left the job. Trump did not replace Dr. Borio.

* In 2019 the NSC’s Senior Director for Global Health Security and bio-defense, Tim Ziemer, left the position and Trump did not replace the Rear Admiral.

* Trump shut down the entire Global Health Security and Bio-defense agency. Yes, he did.

* Amid the explosive worldwide outbreak of the virus Trump proposed a 19% cut to the budget of the Centers of Disease Control and Prevention plus a 10% cut to Public Health Services and a 7% cut to Global Health Services. Those happen to be the organizations that responds to public health threats.

* In 2018, at Trump’s direction, the CDC stopped funding epidemic prevention activities in 39 out of 49 countries including China.

* Trump didn’t appoint a doctor to oversee the US response to the pandemic. He appointed Mike Pence.

* Trump has on multiple occasions sowed doubt about the severity of the virus even using the word hoax at events and rallies. He even did it at an event where the virus was being spread. Trump has put out zero useful information concerning the health risks of the virus.

* Trump pretended the virus had been contained.

* Trump left a cruise ship at sea for days, denying them proper hospital care, rather than increase his numbers in America.

Repeat. We do not blame Trump for the virus. We blame him for gutting the nation’s preparations to deal with it. We blame him for bungling testing and allowing it to spread uninhibited. We blame him for wasting taxpayer money on applause lines at his rallies (like The Wall). We blame him for putting his own political life over American human life. I hope this clears things up."


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Sini #146985 10/14/21 09:13 AM
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Quote
You can't distil Trump's administration to a single event and dismiss all further comparisons as invalid.

There are soooooo many that I am not posting. Please let me know and I am happy to keep going.

Last edited by JetStar; 10/14/21 09:13 AM.

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Sini #146986 10/14/21 09:34 AM
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You can't fix stupid!

Quote
The latest example came Wednesday night when Trump issued this statement via his Save America PAC:
"If we don't solve the Presidential Election Fraud of 2020 (which we have thoroughly and conclusively documented), Republicans will not be voting in '22 or '24. It is the single most important thing for Republicans to do."
If you built a statement in a lab, you would be hard-pressed to make it more counterproductive to Republican efforts to win back the House and Senate majorities they lost in the Trump years.
What Trump is saying, quite simply, is that unless and until he is restored as president -- due to (nonexistent) voter fraud during the 2020 presidential election -- Republican voters should withhold their votes in the 2022 midterms (and the 2024 presidential election).
It's reminiscent of the "strategy" used by Trump's "legal" team during the Georgia Senate runoffs earlier this year.
Sidney Powell urged "all Georgians to make it known that you will not vote at all until your vote is secure — and I mean that regardless of party." Lin Wood, meanwhile, told voters that "this is Georgia. We ain't dumb. We're not going to go vote on Jan. 5 on another machine made by China."
Both Republican incumbents lost the runoffs and, in so doing, Democrats seized the Senate majority. Absolutely brilliant "strategery" there by Powell and Wood.


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JetStar #146994 10/14/21 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by JetStar
Originally Posted by Sini
Originally Posted by JetStar
I will say it again, comparing anything Biden has done to Trump and Trumpism is laughable.

It isn't. You can't distil Trump's administration to a single event and dismiss all further comparisons as invalid.

Let's talk about what is not debatable.

Sure. We are 10 month into Biden's presidency and the following happened:

1. 5%+ inflation
2. Supply chain collapse - fuel shortages, car shortages, electronics shortages and is getting worse every day.
3. Desiastrous withdrawal from Afghanistan
4. Refugee crisis at the southern border

These are just undeniable failures as I am not even brining up soft scandals like Hunter Biden or grouping.

Originally Posted by JetStar
FACT: The Trump administration’s response to the Covid 19 crisis was and is a disaster filled with blatant lies and terrible decisions. It’s all documented here:
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/07/trumps-lies-about-coronavirus/608647/

Trump made it a political issue, but I think regardless of what he actually suggested it would have ended as one. If Trump was pro-masking, Texas now would be passing mask mandate while California banning them. More so, Trump isn't the only one who lied (and keep lying) about COVID to this day. Also, Trump's Administration did one major thing right - Operation Warp Speed ensured we all got vaccines. So no, this issue is not so black and white as you want to portray it.

Here is example of Kamala Harris peddling anti-vax views during national debates:



Here is Donald Trump saying to take vaccine on Fox News:





Originally Posted by JetStar
There are so many more reasons that I am not mentioning
Grab um by the pussy
Paying off women to hide affairs
The Ukraine phone call and impeachment
Asking to have the Special Council fired
Inability to stand up against Putin
Believing Putin regarding interference in the 2016 election over 8 US intelligence agencies
1. Central Intelligence Agency
2. Office of the Director of National Intelligence
3. F.B.I.
4. National Security Agency
5. Justice Department
6. Department of Homeland Security
7. House Intelligence Committee
8. Senate Intelligence Committee
Splitting up immigrant families
And so many more I cant count. Any questions?

Pick one issue to discuss first, we obviously neglected this forum and have lots to talk about. Still, none of these issues would justify why comparing Trump to Biden is invalid. I get it, you don't like when I point out, for example, that Trump did a much better job on immigration. Or Middle East. Or the economy. Or that he managed to pass tax cuts that were his ligislative priority.

I am afraid you will have a very hard time in the next few years as these comparisons going to become more frequent. Biden's Administration is struggling, making rookie mistakes. I am convinced that an expirienced politicial like Biden would have avoided most of these. The only explanation is that he is really not in charge, for whatever reasons we can speculate on that too.


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