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Owain #143167 01/19/18 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Owain
Originally Posted by Goriom
lmao it's bullshit Republican schemes desperately trying to find any excuse to stop Mueller's investigation. The FBI was looking at Trump and his associates way before all of this and if anything the FISA was to get Manafort, which, well... look at the outcome.

Well, if anyone is prosecuted, we will have an opportunity to see what is presented in open court, but so far, the trend seems to be running against Democrats.


Yes, because all the people getting dicked over by Mueller are democrats. How could I have been so foolish!

Sini #143168 01/19/18 11:13 AM
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Currently, the country is demonstrably better off than a year ago. Indeed, the country is better off than it has been for nearly a decade.

How we got here is failed Democratic policies. How we are improving is through successful Republican policies.

Our individual opinions on that premise are irrelevant. What matters is what voters think, and nation wide, at all levels, voters have been rejecting Democratic candidates.

I don't know how long that will continue, but for the last eight years of so, the trend has not favored Democrats.n


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Goriom #143170 01/19/18 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Goriom
Originally Posted by Owain
Originally Posted by Goriom
lmao it's bullshit Republican schemes desperately trying to find any excuse to stop Mueller's investigation. The FBI was looking at Trump and his associates way before all of this and if anything the FISA was to get Manafort, which, well... look at the outcome.

Well, if anyone is prosecuted, we will have an opportunity to see what is presented in open court, but so far, the trend seems to be running against Democrats.


Yes, because all the people getting dicked over by Mueller are democrats. How could I have been so foolish!

So far, the people who are getting dicked over, like Flynn, are getting ducked for things unrelated to Trump or his campaign.

It is a waste of time trying to guess the future based upon what you want, rather that what can be proven. That is what hacks do. So far, I see a lot of accusations and liberals short stroking in anticipation, but no evidence. Like I say, hacks revealing more bias than intelligence.

With this FISA business, I don't know how it will turn out. It may be nothing, and it may be a big deal. Based upon what we actually know so far, it looks bad for Democrats.

Time will tell.


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Owain #143171 01/19/18 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Owain
Currently, the country is demonstrably better off than a year ago. Indeed, the country is better off than it has been for nearly a decade.

How we got here is failed Democratic policies. How we are improving is through successful Republican policies.

Our individual opinions on that premise are irrelevant. What matters is what voters think, and nation wide, at all levels, voters have been rejecting Democratic candidates.

I don't know how long that will continue, but for the last eight years of so, the trend has not favored Democrats.n


Oh get the fuck out of here with that lame shit. We all know this is Obama's economy.

Sini #143172 01/19/18 11:37 AM
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You have your opinion, and I have mine. As mentioned, both are irrelevant. What voters think will be what matters. We'll see the results of their opinions soon enough.

Personally, Obama sure was stupid not to have done better earlier. Hillary lost to Trump, at least in part, because of the dogshit Obama economy. Funny how that turned around immediately after Trump was elected.

Bad luck for Democrats, as Robert Heinlein might say.


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Sini #143173 01/19/18 11:41 AM
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“Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded — here and there, now and then — are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty.

This is known as bad luck.

Robert Heinlein

Last edited by Owain; 01/19/18 11:42 AM.

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Sini #143175 01/19/18 12:15 PM
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Lets just put it this way. Trump is the president for better or for worse (it's worse). If this FISA thing is so damning and can prove his innocence, He could legally declassify and release it at any moment.

This is nothing but kabuki theater here folks.

Goriom #143176 01/19/18 12:29 PM
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You have that exactly backwards, Goriam.

Originally Posted by Goriom
Lets just put it this way. Trump is the president for better or for worse (it's worse). If this FISA thing is so damning and can prove his innocence, He could legally declassify and release it at any moment.

This is nothing but kabuki theater here folks.


It is the obligation of the state to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that a defendant is guilty. No one is required to prove themselves innocent. Innocence is presumed.


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Owain #143177 01/19/18 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Owain
You have that exactly backwards, Goriam.

Originally Posted by Goriom
Lets just put it this way. Trump is the president for better or for worse (it's worse). If this FISA thing is so damning and can prove his innocence, He could legally declassify and release it at any moment.

This is nothing but kabuki theater here folks.


It is the obligation of the state to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that a defendant is guilty. No one is required to prove themselves innocent. Innocence is presumed.


Yes just side step exactly what I said. Maybe in a vacuum this would make sense but because we are talking about Trump here, someone with a huge ego, if this were to prove the democrats wrong, he would do it in a second. Nice try though.

Sini #143179 01/19/18 12:58 PM
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It isn't that simple. What is classified are the details of individual FISA warrant requests. Who is the prosecutor who requested the warrant? Who is the judge who approved the request? Is the classified data included to justify the request? A request may be submitted fraudulently but still contain information of intelligence value submitted under false pretenses. If there were multiple fraudulent application requests, each request would have to be evaluated individually.


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